Forums » Pantheon Classes

Hybrid or Off-Spec Roles?

    • 8 posts
    September 6, 2020 9:02 PM PDT

    Hello Everyone,

    With the update of the website, they edited what the group class role is, but none of them are two. There's no "Tank/DPS" or "Heal/DPS" listed. Is there such a thing as a hybrid role or an off-spec in Pantheon? The example I was thinking of was if there are two warriors in a group, are they both tanks and they just shrug and kill stuff a bit slower, or are there enough offensive abilities for all classes that one can be tank and one can be DPS (but maybe not as DPS-y as a class that is exclusively built to do damage)? 

    A different, but unrelated question. Has there been any mention of a class that can preform the Tank, DPS, and Healing role, like the Paladin or Druid from World of Warcraft?

    Thanks in advance. I tried looking around and couldn't find any answers.

    -Oaken

    • 2952 posts
    September 7, 2020 2:13 AM PDT

    No, there are no hybrids in Pantheon. It has been a design goal from the start that classes would fulfill a primary role in the "Quaternity" that is Tank/Healer/DPS/Support.

     

    That does not mean a group cannot have two warriors with one tanking and one loading their hotbar with more DPS/utility oriented abilities and get by. It does mean that the "DPS" warrior would be underperforming (likely notably) in DPS compared to an actual DPS class.

     

    There are no classes that can fulfill multiple roles like the druid or paladin from WoW.

    • 8 posts
    September 7, 2020 2:16 PM PDT

    Thanks Iksar! That answers my question. I've never heard the term Quaternity. I like it. I'm lookin forward to see what all the classes have to offer :-)

    • 1104 posts
    September 7, 2020 6:40 PM PDT

    Iksar is correct in that there are no "Hybrid" classes;  I would add that there are "Off-Spec Roles" though.  If you mean like "Off Tank" or "Support" via limited defensive abilities, CC or backup heals in a clench that is.  There are no "Hybrids" like in EQ where the RNG, SHD, PAL were basically a single class 3 levels behind the warrior and 9 levels behind their respective caster, but there are classes that will be able to perform multiple roles in a limited capacity and some roles better than others. 

    An example is the Monk has some abilities that can generate threat but they (theoretically) won't be able to compete with any of the other classes with the primary role of "Tank".  


    This post was edited by Darch at September 7, 2020 6:41 PM PDT
    • 673 posts
    September 8, 2020 5:14 AM PDT

    OakenPage said: "I've never heard the term Quaternity. I like it. I'm lookin forward to see what all the classes have to offer :-)"


    From Dec 9, 2016: (source)

    Cohh asks: "Trinity is in effect?"

    Aradune said: "It's actually a quadternity. I had to look that word up by the way, but it is a real word. So that's your: Tank, Dps, Heal and Crowd Control. Crowd control is maybe something that a lot of people haven't experienced in more recent MMOs."

    Joppa said: "You got your basic crowd control elements which is something like an Enchanter, or like I was asking earlier 'does anyone have a root spell?'. When mobs flee and run into other packs of mobs a simple root is sometimes enough to keep things under control. That's the idea behind crowd control. It's controlling the mobs, keeping them either Mesmerized, Rooted, Stunned to where they are rendered inactive so you can keep a better control of the fight.

    One of the cool things we are wanting to do beyond crowd control is something I call encounter control which is when you get into things like atmosphere and environments certain classes like a druid for example may be able to change the actual climate or atmosphere of a given area which will have adverse effects on say the boss for example. So it could be that the boss has some kind of intense frost resistance or frost shield that is totally impenetrable or is just highly mitigated. The druid could come in and change the climate of the room to a scorching climate that render, for a period of time or the duration of the fight, that shield much less effective or completely circumvent the effect. Some of it's movement related too; it could be that while the boss is standing in a certain location you may not, just through traditional maneuver mechanics like the tank getting agro and then bringing the boss to another corner of the room, that might not be possible. It might require certain types of abilities to actually catch that boss from a certain location and move them to a different location. It's crowd control, it's encounter control. It's giving the players lots of really interesting ways to control certain aspects of the fight to their advantage."

     

    From April 10, 2018 (source)

    Bazgrim said: "Which classes typically fit into each of those roles?"

    Joppa said: "So we have the Tank archetype which would include the Warrior, Paladin and the Dire Lord. We have the healers which would be the Cleric, Druid and the Shaman. We have the DPS which would be, the caster DPS is the Wizard and the Summoner, and then Melee DPS would be the Rogue, Monk and the Ranger. Then we have the crowd control archetype which would be filled by the Enchanter and ya.

    Bazgrim said: ”That’s interesting though that the Enchanter is the only crowd control class in the game right because every other role there is 3 or 4 classes in each, but the Enchanter is... if anyone needs crowd control they need to go to an Enchanter.”

    Joppa said: ”Yeah well, so I’ll go ahead and say that there is another class that would fill that role and that would be the Bard. Just to kind of make the soft announcement, it is something that I feel confident from my perspective that we will be able to have the Bard in by Launch.”

    It should be noted that on the new Website Classes pages the Enchanter class is no longer listed as 'Crowd Control' but is now just listed as 'Support'.


    From March 13, 2020 (source)

    Minus asks: "Am I right in saying that Bard is being built as a Support class? That's going to be a different support class than the Enchanter but that the ideology/theory, the on paper Bard, that it's going to fill a different type of support role. Is that where you are aiming for Bard?"

    Joppa said: "Yup, definitely. Very support heavy. They would probably fit into the Control archetype in terms of the kind of crowd control capabilities they are going to have. And interestingly enough the Necromancer will as well."

    Minus said: "That was my next question. So you jumped right into that. So both Support classes. So Enchanter, Necro, Bard... what are the ideological differences in the way they are going to Support that you can kind of invision?"

    Joppa said: "When I said the Necro as well I was speaking to the Control and not necessarily to the Support. The Necro is going to be more of, like the Dire Lord, sort of a selfish class. Which I think is kind of what we would expect. Not to say that there is not going to be some support or utility orientated abilities, which they absolutely will have. So you can kind of put the Necro in the... there are still some DPS elements to that class as well and I would say even more so than the Bard for sure in terms of like their ability to do damage. Especially if we are talking about undead and other types of entities, I'd like to see it extend beyond undead."

    The Bard... one of the things we love about the bard is the idea of just this very... it doesn't matter what group it is, it doesn't matter what class make up, the bard is just good to have. They are able to benefit just about any type of class and any type of gameplay element. Ultimately that's where the 'Jack of all Trades' kind of idea came from, because they certainly didn't feel like the 'Jack of all Trades' in EQ in terms of like; they can't heal very well, there are certain things they can't do very well. But what they could do very well is fit and adapt and kind of morph into this kind of perfectly fitting enhancer. And I don't mean that to be a disparaging thing because those were one of my favorite classes, and when I say enhancer or amplifier, it gets pretty powerful when you are able to enhance your group and debuff pretty heavily as well and control. They are going to be a very..."
    then he was inturrupted by Minus.


    So Bard will fit the 'Support' Group Role, whereas Necromancer (whenever we see it) will likely be listed as a 'Damage' Group Role but will have more 'Control' type abilities than the average Damage dealers will.


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at September 8, 2020 5:15 AM PDT
    • 1330 posts
    September 8, 2020 7:29 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    So Bard will fit the 'Support' Group Role, whereas Necromancer (whenever we see it) will likely be listed as a 'Damage' Group Role but will have more 'Control' type abilities than the average Damage dealers will.

    I'm sure that VR Devs have said more than once that the Necro will be a full CC (apparently now called Support) role, just as Bard and Enchanter. Different methods, but the same group role.

    • 2952 posts
    September 9, 2020 10:30 AM PDT

    Jothany said:

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    So Bard will fit the 'Support' Group Role, whereas Necromancer (whenever we see it) will likely be listed as a 'Damage' Group Role but will have more 'Control' type abilities than the average Damage dealers will.

    I'm sure that VR Devs have said more than once that the Necro will be a full CC (apparently now called Support) role, just as Bard and Enchanter. Different methods, but the same group role.

    Yeah. Them mentioning Necro will have more DPS focus than bard or enchanter does not mean they will not still be CC/Support role, just that how they go about fulfilling that CC/Support will likely include or revolve around their damage/drains etc. 

    • 673 posts
    September 10, 2020 9:24 PM PDT

    Jothany said: "I'm sure that VR Devs have said more than once that the Necro will be a full CC (apparently now called Support) role, just as Bard and Enchanter."

    Would you be able to link to any of these sources? Other than the information I posted above, I am not aware of ANY other times VR has spoken about any details of the Necromancer.

    Iksar said: "Them mentioning Necro will have more DPS focus than bard or enchanter does not mean they will not still be CC/Support role"

    If you read what I quoted above, Minus specifically said "So both Support classes." and Joppa immediately responded: "When I said the Necro as well I was speaking to the Control and not necessarily to the Support." He goes on to say "So you can kind of put the Necro in the... there are still some DPS elements to that class...".

    Now perhaps I'm just guessing that he meant that this means Necromancer will be a Damage class. But he did go out of his way to correct Minus's assumption that Necro's will be a support class.

    He even said "The Necro is going to be more of, like the Dire Lord, sort of a selfish class.  How can it be a Support class if it's being designed to be a Selfish class.

    The way I read this information is that Joppa was telling us that the Necromancer was going to have more Control type abilities than most other classes, but that it is not a True Support class the way Enchanter and Bard is meant to be. Now perhaps I'm wrong, but since this is the only information we have about Necromancer you have to pay close attention to what Joppa actually said and not jump to 'Support class' assumptions.

    • 2952 posts
    September 11, 2020 10:42 AM PDT

    "Yup, definitely. Very support heavy. They would probably fit into the Control archetype in terms of the kind of crowd control capabilities they are going to have. And interestingly enough the Necromancer will as well."

    I am paying attention to what he said. He was comparing necro to bard within the role, similar to how direlord are more selfish as tanks within the tank role. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at September 11, 2020 10:42 AM PDT