Hey everyone,
I used to play the Korean MMORPG "Silkroad Online" back in its early days. Despite its ridiculously grindy quests, I thorougly enjoyed its three party job system. Once you hit a certain level threshold, you had the option to become either a trader, a hunter (mercenary), or a thief. The basic goal as a trader was to purchase regional specialty goods and sell them according to supply and demand at a remote location. For this purpose, you had to chose between transport mounts of differing capacity, speed, and health (could be healed with consumables on a large cooldown). Depending on the total value of your goods a rating between 1 and 5 stars was assigned to your trade. The rating directly influenced the level and number of thief npcs that randomely spawned during your travels. A rating of one star was manageable for a single person that stuck to the roads, but with increasing difficulty some kind of protection was required and therefore you hired (player) mercenaries to protect you or your caravan. Each successfully sold good resulted in progress towards your job profession and coin. Mercenaries on the other hand, gained job exp for every trader in their caravan that managed to sell goods in their target location. A certain amount of trust between both parties was required, as traders were supposed to pay mercenaries a previously negogiated amount of coin after a job well done. Player thieves were not able to interfere with 1 star trades, but could very well raid any caravan with 2 or more stars. However, by increasing the level of their job profession traders could carry a larger amount of goods without affecting the total trade rating. Further benefits of higher profession levels were more capable transport mounts or the possibility to purchase rare goods on occasion. Death resulted in a loss of regular and job exp simultaneously (even de-leveling). In order to stay anonymous, players had the option to display an unique alias while exerting their profession.
While this system is certainly improvable, a similar approach might add to Pantheon in following ways:
- populates remote regions of the server, as high value caravans are trying to avoid the attention of (possible) player thieves on the main roads and can't use any form of quick travel
- could tie into the faction system, by opening the possibility to trade goods with not readily accessible merchants (perhaps for exotic or rare crafting materials instead of coin)
- adds a feeling of risk and reward, as traders have to spend a significant amount of coin before even attempting a trade
- gives the option for meaningful pvp, while not enforcing it on people that did not activate their job flag or are simply running low rating trades.
Do you guys think something like that could be a viable expansion to Pantheon post-release? Are there any ideas or concerns you would like to add?
This post definitely does not cover the aformentioned mechanisms exhaustively, so take it with a grain of salt.
Best regards
This suits just fine in the Caravan thread. It does seem like a good topic.
I like how it can tie crafters in with adventurers. In that there might not be a caravan without the input of crafters.
It could indeed populate desolated regions, as long as it's not a detour where it's not needed to.
Storywise, a lot of caravans could be sent out to less populated regions, purely because they need supplies or other survival resources.
Barin999 said:I like how it can tie crafters in with adventurers. In that there might not be a caravan without the input of crafters.
Aside from specifically crafter made goods, you might even have crafters create and/or improve bags and other protective gear for your transportation mounts. This would result in crafters being sought after by traders and thieves alike, as both parties require means to transport their goods. I don't know how realizable it is to have different crafters assemble a wagon for high level trades. This would force people to stick mostly to the main roads or wide areas (if there is enough space in the first place), while greatly increasing risk for a much higher capacity.
Barin999 said:Storywise, a lot of caravans could be sent out to less populated regions, purely because they need supplies or other survival resources.
That a sound idea. You could also have people catch rumors or give keepers an occational perception prompt that something seems to be amiss in a given region or settlement.
This is a very interesting topic, I feel like this is really something I would love to do in the game. I think it would be a nice break away for a guild from doing the typical stuff and needs cooperation & teamwork.
I love the idea. Be nice to hear this expanded on.
It's on my watch list, thanks AzuraFailth!
Morwen said:This is a very interesting topic, I feel like this is really something I would love to do in the game. I think it would be a nice break away for a guild from doing the typical stuff and needs cooperation & teamwork.
I love the idea. Be nice to hear this expanded on.
It's on my watch list, thanks AzuraFailth!
It might be an added boon for guilds to attain temporary access to unique transportation mounts. Perhaps by gathering hard to get items through raiding, crafting, or through the job system itself (trading/stealing). This could be coupled to additional prerequisites like faction standing. Mounts obainted in such way may have added benefits like the ability to knock back/down incoming attackers (a possible trade-off might be reduced speed, or a size that prevents the use of common short cuts and hidden paths).
There are also some issues I would like to address. Players should not be able to change their profession or job alias on a whim. Changing professions should come with a 7 or 10 days cooldown and reset the progress on your previous job at least in part. I doubt anyone would like their friendly mercenaries changing jobs moments before you hit your destination, just to rob you and sell everything themselves. I don't mind having separate aliases for each each job, but your alias is directly related to your reputation among the community (trader that always pays according to his/her agreements, a reliable mercenary, or a notorious thief). Therefore, changing your alias in a given profession should only be possible on a large cooldown (maybe once a month if at all) and reset a large chuck of your progress towards the job in question.
It would be great to hear some more opinions or ideas on this subject :)
Btw its AzuraFilth, while AzuraFailth still has a certain ring to it ;D
Regional trade is a great example of a non-combat (or alternative combat) sphere of gameplay that should be considered post-release, along with others :)
To make this work for Pantheon and its audience, given other design choices the team has made, I think you would need a few ingredients:
1) A way to make it challenging from a PvE perspective, without relying on opt-in PvP to provide the challenge (although 'caravan jobs' should totally be an option on PvP servers).
2) A way to make traveling with a trade caravan work well when zone lines are added into the equation.
3) Clearly defined trade regions with trade caravans happening regularly/often enough that players could join one within a reasonable amount of time regardless of when they log in.
4) Rewards and progression that are unique to this sphere of gameplay BUT provide value to other spheres (perhaps a trade caravan making it through helps keep merchant prices lower, etc)
Nephele said:1) A way to make it challenging from a PvE perspective, without relying on opt-in PvP to provide the challenge (although 'caravan jobs' should totally be an option on PvP servers).
Even without the interference of players thieves, running high rating trades was challenging on its own. This was mainly due to npc thieves exceeding the player level (the one who purchased the goods) once hitting 4 - 5 star ratings. For example a level 50 player (assuming this is the level cap) would start to run into level 53 - 55 npc thieves (with player abilities), which would absolutely require a full group to even try. I don't know how well level differences are going to affect difficulty in Pantheon. Therefore, other mechanisms might be a better option to provide more challenge. Perhaps you could introduce a specialized disposition that deliberately tries to lure nearby monsters into your caravan, while trying to stay hidden themselves (this would introduce the need for scouts and anti stealth/invis mechanisms).
Nephele said:2) A way to make traveling with a trade caravan work well when zone lines are added into the equation.
I don't see much of an issue having a person scout the zone border ahead of the caravan. Though, it would be great if they could show a preview of npcs patroling close to the border of adjoining zones (is this even feasible?).
Nephele said:3) Clearly defined trade regions with trade caravans happening regularly/often enough that players could join one within a reasonable amount of time regardless of when they log in.
I think trading should be possible in both directions for the most part. However, its good to have designated areas where a lot of trading starts from quite frequently (perhaps due high availabillity and a wide range of goods that might be requested in different regions). It would be interesting to know how day and night cycles are going to be handled in Pantheon, as you could restrict the availabillity of selected goods to certain times of the day (increasing the availability of caravans throughout the day).
Nephele said:4) Rewards and progression that are unique to this sphere of gameplay BUT provide value to other spheres (perhaps a trade caravan making it through helps keep merchant prices lower, etc)
I really like the idea of trade caravans directly influencing the prices of merchants :)
Exotic goods in remote locations could be locked behind a very high inital price tag that is slowly reduced by keeping a steady supply of neccessary materials. Random events like wars between factions are likely to have a huge influence on demand in certain regions, which gives a great opportunity to better ones standing with one faction (while offending another!). This might be used to further increase difficulty, as ambushes lead by the opposing faction could provide another obstacle alongside npc thieves. Another interesting idea might be the possibility to introduce limited stock of unsual or unique items and crafting materials in merchant inventories, by successfully delivering rarely seen goods to a given region (let's say you make it all the way from Sironai's Rest to Wild's End). This effect should not show immediately, but rather take place slowly, over a couple of days (taking production time into account and giving everyone a chance to grab one of those rare goodies).