Forums » The Enchanter

Mez suggestions and how to overcome its binary problem

    • 478 posts
    April 17, 2020 12:55 PM PDT
    The all or nothing nature of mez effects in most games is outdated and leads to mez either being too powerful for regular mobs or useless for bosses (neither of which is fun). I have some ideas on making it more fun.

    Suggestions:

    • Mez should have a sliding scale effect so it is useful against all levels of mobs. A reduced mez could still impact the mob by slowing, reducing range, limiting available powers, reducing regeneration, reducing AoE, etc.

    • Mez should fade out instead of abruptly ending. This is more believable and immersive. It will also cause us to feel like we're watching the mobs, not watching a timer. Plus it would look more interesting to see them slowly start to come after you. It should feel like they are recovering from a spell, not playing freeze tag.

    • Some mob types should become more sensitive to mez each additional time it's cast while some others should become more resistant.

    • One mob type should have a reflective effect which redirects the mez back on to the enchanter (gotta keep things interesting).

    • A couple of mob types (or maybe dispositions) should try to break the mez of allies.
    • 54 posts
    April 17, 2020 3:19 PM PDT

    Have you ever seen someone (maby a kid) mesmorised by something (maby a firetruck)?

    • 420 posts
    April 17, 2020 4:08 PM PDT

    With more thought and more input my opinion would likely change but at first glance this idea sounds really good to me. Would love to see something like this tried in Alpha or Beta. Not that I am in Alpha but hey it might happen.

     

    Edited for spelling


    This post was edited by Susurrus at April 17, 2020 4:09 PM PDT
    • 478 posts
    April 17, 2020 4:38 PM PDT
    @Zosu,
    I'm not clear on exactly what you're getting at, but I suspect you're arguing that mobs should snap out of mez when it expires. This would make sense for some mobs or dispositions, so allow me to suggest a couple more ideas.

    • A few mob types / dispositions are more sensitive to mez while others are less.

    • A couple mob types / dispositions really hate getting mez'd and will generate huge amounts of hate for the enchanter. They will charge after the enchanter once mez is expired / broken and it will be hard for the tank to pull aggro.

    My basic goal is to have rich, strategically deep gameplay with lots of variation. I don't want half of an enchanter's abilities to be useless because all bosses are totally immune to mez and I also don't want crowd control to become routine.
    • 478 posts
    April 17, 2020 4:39 PM PDT
    • A couple of mobs / dispositions should snap out of mez (but not most).
    • 420 posts
    April 17, 2020 6:24 PM PDT

    I like the idea of having mobs coming out of mez more gradually and visually different then what I am used to seeing. I also like the idea of it not always being the same. It would be cool to see a mobs brain and body slowly shifting back to normal.

    I would want mez to work consistently on normal mobs though. I like this idea on how it stops being mezzed not on how it gets mezzed. I see were you are going for mobs that normally can’t be mezzed at all and allowing the skill to still have some use. This could work but I am less excited about that as I am with giving the skill a more interesting transition.


    This post was edited by Susurrus at April 17, 2020 6:24 PM PDT
    • 394 posts
    April 19, 2020 11:44 PM PDT

     

    A couple things. I don't think Mez needs to do anything other than be crown control. There are other spell lines already planned to fill the roles for slow, etc. I would like to see a minimum set time that a mob is ALWAYS mez'd for. If my mez spell says "20 second mez" I would like that 20 seconds guranteed unless outside forces act on it. I think there could be factors, stats, etc. that add a randomness to the length. You could also do it's in a staggered debuff like 30 second mez, unbreakable for 10 seconds, 11-20 seconds can be broken like normal. 21-30 slowly starts to wake up and depending on the situation may jump back int he fight early. This still gives me 20 second guranteed along with allowing the mob to slolwy wake up.

     

    Something else I'd like to see is that if I mez a mob with a dot or debuff on it that would "break" the mez I'd like that dot or debuff removed or "paused". You could add this on higher level spells, this would prevent that super frustrating act of trying to mez a mob that the lazy DoT class decided to Dot up without using assist. 

     

    If you really wanted to add an "extra" ability to Mez you could make it sort of blind the mob. So even if Mez is broken or a high level mob can't be mez'd it would "blind" and lower it's accuracy for say half the duration of the mez. Mez last 20, but either the mob can't be mez'd, or someone breaks ti early, the mob has lower accuracy for 10 seconds after the spell hits. 

    • 143 posts
    April 20, 2020 2:16 PM PDT

    EppE said:

     

    A couple things. I don't think Mez needs to do anything other than be crown control. There are other spell lines already planned to fill the roles for slow, etc. I would like to see a minimum set time that a mob is ALWAYS mez'd for. If my mez spell says "20 second mez" I would like that 20 seconds guranteed unless outside forces act on it. I think there could be factors, stats, etc. that add a randomness to the length. You could also do it's in a staggered debuff like 30 second mez, unbreakable for 10 seconds, 11-20 seconds can be broken like normal. 21-30 slowly starts to wake up and depending on the situation may jump back int he fight early. This still gives me 20 second guranteed along with allowing the mob to slolwy wake up.

     

    Something else I'd like to see is that if I mez a mob with a dot or debuff on it that would "break" the mez I'd like that dot or debuff removed or "paused". You could add this on higher level spells, this would prevent that super frustrating act of trying to mez a mob that the lazy DoT class decided to Dot up without using assist. 

     

    If you really wanted to add an "extra" ability to Mez you could make it sort of blind the mob. So even if Mez is broken or a high level mob can't be mez'd it would "blind" and lower it's accuracy for say half the duration of the mez. Mez last 20, but either the mob can't be mez'd, or someone breaks ti early, the mob has lower accuracy for 10 seconds after the spell hits. 

    I really like the blind part... and it would be nice to mess with a mob that can't be mezzed in some way....

    I think the enchanter should be able to cripple mobs and just mess with them in crazy fun ways....

     

     

    • 118 posts
    May 5, 2020 7:45 AM PDT

    Speaking from the perspective of someone considering the Enchanter I would not be interested in a reflective ability or any increased aggro :) I like the over powered version of the Enchanter myself hehe. On the other hand the Enchanters job can be tricky enough from the looks of the streams but I do like alot of the other ideas mentioned could make things more interesting and having a strong value at raid time is a must 

    • 143 posts
    May 5, 2020 9:41 AM PDT

    SugarWood said:

    Speaking from the perspective of someone considering the Enchanter I would not be interested in a reflective ability or any increased aggro :) I like the over powered version of the Enchanter myself hehe. On the other hand the Enchanters job can be tricky enough from the looks of the streams but I do like alot of the other ideas mentioned could make things more interesting and having a strong value at raid time is a must 

     

    I agree with you... I would like the Enchanter to just be able to cripple the Mobs... I know they said somewhere that charm will not let you have a super strong pet and they will make it weaker... But, I wish they wouldn't .... Maybe...In EQ later on with all the AA abilities it was cake.... But in the begining it was truly risk vs reward... and I would love that game play again... 

    Personaly I am still deciding on rogue, summoner, monk, and enchanter.... 

    Enchanter was a really fun class... It should always be... make it fun and rewarding

    • 1898 posts
    May 5, 2020 4:28 PM PDT

    The ideas aren't bad but I don't see except #1 how it does solve the binary probel of the enchanter. I do like that a resisted mezz could work to some extent, but not to the point it becomes a way to circumvent around using it to trigger the best slow in the game and take on challenges out of reach that way.

     

    The problem is that an ennemy that is mezzed is renderly useless, and an ennemy that is not mezzed is dangerous. Adding a slow/daze/comingout when resisted or broken will not add anything to the fact the next pell will be a mez to ensure it is properly locked down and not roaming around. That's the core essence of controlling that is binary, and that's what is the most risky to change. Making a mob half as powerfull with a partial mez will only make it a debuff of choice, but overall it's still the role of another player to care care of him instead of the enchanter as he isn't suppressed.

     

    I don't really see a solution to this, only to enforce enchanter scaling so gear matter and the more the better, but not to binary of a role that is by essence, binary.

    • 1 posts
    September 7, 2020 3:47 AM PDT

    I played an enchanter in EQ and mez was never a completely sure thing. It often broke randomly before the end of its timer. It didn't work on a number of mobs. It was easily broken by any damage, spell or weapon. It created tremendous aggro. especially from casing mobs who liked to summon you then one-shot you, thus requiring someone skilled at controlling aggro. And I was mezemerized numerous times by Necromancers and evil eyes. Root was even worse, most of the time breaking before the timer was up. 

    • 53 posts
    April 28, 2021 4:40 AM PDT

    Rayn said:

    I played an enchanter in EQ and mez was never a completely sure thing. It often broke randomly before the end of its timer. It didn't work on a number of mobs. It was easily broken by any damage, spell or weapon. It created tremendous aggro. especially from casing mobs who liked to summon you then one-shot you, thus requiring someone skilled at controlling aggro. And I was mezemerized numerous times by Necromancers and evil eyes. Root was even worse, most of the time breaking before the timer was up. 

    My EQ Enchanter is still on a retail server, level 120 where I left her. I had all the AOE, PBAOE, and targeted mez and boggle and tash spells in the game. On my highest level targeted mez spells, with the AAs I had, I could use timers to clock mez on multiple mobs and not once did one ever break without another player doing something to cause it to break. I could cast boggle and tash and not break the mez. Not sure why you had the problem you write about.

    Remember having to memorize which mobs could, and could not be mesmerized. I think we had to become walking encyclopedias of mob lore.


    This post was edited by Malla at April 28, 2021 4:42 AM PDT
    • 6 posts
    July 7, 2021 8:10 AM PDT

    EppE said:

     

    A couple things. I don't think Mez needs to do anything other than be crown control. There are other spell lines already planned to fill the roles for slow, etc. I would like to see a minimum set time that a mob is ALWAYS mez'd for. If my mez spell says "20 second mez" I would like that 20 seconds guranteed unless outside forces act on it. I think there could be factors, stats, etc. that add a randomness to the length. You could also do it's in a staggered debuff like 30 second mez, unbreakable for 10 seconds, 11-20 seconds can be broken like normal. 21-30 slowly starts to wake up and depending on the situation may jump back int he fight early. This still gives me 20 second guranteed along with allowing the mob to slolwy wake up.

     

    Something else I'd like to see is that if I mez a mob with a dot or debuff on it that would "break" the mez I'd like that dot or debuff removed or "paused". You could add this on higher level spells, this would prevent that super frustrating act of trying to mez a mob that the lazy DoT class decided to Dot up without using assist. 

     

    If you really wanted to add an "extra" ability to Mez you could make it sort of blind the mob. So even if Mez is broken or a high level mob can't be mez'd it would "blind" and lower it's accuracy for say half the duration of the mez. Mez last 20, but either the mob can't be mez'd, or someone breaks ti early, the mob has lower accuracy for 10 seconds after the spell hits. 

     

    I think thats such a good idea, you could also add things like time freeze or something. and if they break out of it they are slowed. i think this would be such a cool way to add extra depth to mezzing.

    you would be force to balance different CCs at the same time, and rotate your mezzes because you want the mob to be as weak as possible when your group grabs it. They could even last shorter amounts of time compared to regular debuffs and non debilitating mezzes. It would let you carve out a playstyle very effectivly and you could use different ways of CCing between groups.

    High damage no tank, short duration debilitating mezzes.

    tank but low damage, super long duration mez and forget