Forums » The Druid

Verdanfire Seed Question

    • 646 posts
    February 9, 2020 9:14 AM PST
    Verdanfire Seed

    You plant a mystical seed within your ally. This seed protects the target by absorbing up to X damage based on your level. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal your target for the amount of damage it absorbed. Y% of the effective healing your target receives will be refunded to you as Mana. You may apply a Verdanfire Seed to as many targets as you like but only one seed may be active on a target at a time. Once the seed blooms and the healing is applied, you may not cast this ability on the same target for Z duration.

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    The way it's written makes me feel like the healing part of the seed might be useless in most situations, someone please help clarify this :)  

    Examples:  Your put the seed on each player in your group, everyone is at full health.  Tank pulls and absorbs his X dmg but he's still at full health because all the dmg he's taken was absorbed.  Then boom, the healing portion goes off, but he's already at full health.  Your wizard accidentally pulls agro and takes X +10 dmg so the seed goes off and would have healed Y dmg but the wizard was only down 10 health so most of Y is wasted.

     

    Any thoughts or explanations?

    Thanks!

    • 686 posts
    February 9, 2020 1:09 PM PST

    My interpretation (my opinion, not from any Dev statements) when reading "You may apply a Verdanfire Seed to as many targets as you like but only one seed may be active on a target at a time" is that you can't protect the whole group with the seeds, only the last person you cast it on. We haven't yet heard what happens to the previously cast Seeds on other players when you cast a new one though, so we're all working with limited info.

    Given the spell functionality as described, I wouldn't put it on a Tank when at full health for the reason you just mentioned, any more than I'd cast a 1000Hp heal on a Tank that was only down 250Hps.

    Once I was familiar with how much damage the Seed absorbs, I'd cast it when the Tank was down enough HPs so that the 2nd part of it's effect wouldn't be wasted. Seems to me to just be a matter of getting the best use out of my available heals.

    • 646 posts
    February 9, 2020 2:53 PM PST

    That all makes sense, except your interpretation of how many players you can cast it on.  It seems to be pretty clear that you can cast it on many players at the same time but only oen PER target at a time.  

    So, that makes a lot more sense to me now.  Cast it on my target when he's at like 80% for example, it absorbs some dmg, then heals that same target up from 80%.  And the way I interpret it (which could be wrong) is like this example:  In a raid fight where the boss does a certain amount of AoE dmg every 30 seconds, my job is to cast seeds on everyone except the main tank and keep them between 80 and 100% health.  I wouldn't cast the seed on someone that's already at 100% and I wouldn't use a direct heal on anyone that's over 80% and also has a seed cast on them.  

    I don't think we'll be limited to using the seed on one person at a time, I think it's inteded to say you can't stack seeds on the same player.  Can't wait to find out though :)

    • 686 posts
    February 9, 2020 3:31 PM PST

    Ranarius said:

    I don't think we'll be limited to using the seed on one person at a time, I think it's inteded to say you can't stack seeds on the same player.  Can't wait to find out though :)

    Well first, I think that the way it is worded is vague enough that I could have have it totally bassakwards :)

    Now as to the second part, I've never had any spells where the same spell could be 'stacked' on a player multiple times. So I expect that to be a given in any game, and wouldn't expect it to get any space in a spell description. If it's something that happens then sure they might want to define that in its description.

    Either way, I'm also in the "Can't Wait" club!

    • 646 posts
    February 9, 2020 7:46 PM PST

    Yeah, that makes sense too I suppose (the fact that the norm is already to not stack).  

    "You may apply a Verdanfire Seed to as many targets as you like but only one seed may be active on a target at a time." ... I guess we'll need some clarification someday about what it means to be active.  Also seems pointless to let you apply it to multiple targets if the intent is to only allow one.  

    Maybe I'll remember to ask this at the next dev stream (and the one after that, and the one after that....)  haha

    • 488 posts
    February 9, 2020 11:31 PM PST

    Here I shall help, this is from the Druid PA4 stream w/ Sarcoth:

    Verdanfire Seed

    20 Mana / 20m Range

    0.5s cast (3 sec cd)

    Plant a mystical seed that absorbs up to 40% of the target's Max Health in damage. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal the target for the amount it absorbed. Additionally, 20% of the effective healing the target receives will be refunded to you as Mana.

    Only one seed may be active on the same target at a time. Once the seed blooms, you may not cast this ability on the same target for 10 seconds.

    • 248 posts
    February 10, 2020 4:44 AM PST

    I was reading through this and it makes me question this abilities viability in a raid environment. I could see its use when you are the only healer in a group and you have more or less sole control over the damage being healed, however when you have other healers "heal sniping" the amount of mana regened from this ability would be negated. It also begs the question of how much mana does this ability cost and how much is returned.

    As for the target portion of the ability. It sounds like all targets within a group can be affected by this ability and have it active. However, a specific target may only have one of these active at a time meaning that you cant stack the application, and potentially other druids within the party/raid wouldn't benefit from its application until your application expired.

    • 686 posts
    February 10, 2020 12:44 PM PST

    Fragile said:

    Here I shall help, this is from the Druid PA4 stream w/ Sarcoth:

    Verdanfire Seed

    20 Mana / 20m Range

    0.5s cast (3 sec cd)

    Plant a mystical seed that absorbs up to 40% of the target's Max Health in damage. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal the target for the amount it absorbed. Additionally, 20% of the effective healing the target receives will be refunded to you as Mana.

    Only one seed may be active on the same target at a time. Once the seed blooms, you may not cast this ability on the same target for 10 seconds.

    That is a lot of useful information.

    Thank you

    • 488 posts
    February 10, 2020 5:21 PM PST
    No problem. It's essentially a better version of Power Word: Shield with the 'Weakened Soul' debuff from World of Warcraft. Pantheon version is much stronger obviously.
    • 906 posts
    February 10, 2020 6:04 PM PST

    Fragile said:

    Here I shall help, this is from the Druid PA4 stream w/ Sarcoth:

    Verdanfire Seed

    20 Mana / 20m Range

    0.5s cast (3 sec cd)

    Plant a mystical seed that absorbs up to 40% of the target's Max Health in damage. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal the target for the amount it absorbed. Additionally, 20% of the effective healing the target receives will be refunded to you as Mana.

    Only one seed may be active on the same target at a time. Once the seed blooms, you may not cast this ability on the same target for 10 seconds.

    That sounds crazy powerful having such a low cast time and cooldown!!!!

    (The tank has 10k max HP and is now down to 6k... lets stop him taking 4k damage, and then heal him for another 4k with a .5 sec cast spell (effectively healing for 8k)). That gets even more crazy-bananas-silly when your tank can heal themselves for 2.5k already (and all of that gets increased again by X% with the Hirode line of abilities like Hirode's Presence.)

    Add:  I'm 99% certain that will be changed.


    This post was edited by Darch at February 10, 2020 6:07 PM PST
    • 488 posts
    February 10, 2020 6:36 PM PST

    Darch said:

    That sounds crazy powerful having such a low cast time and cooldown!!!!

    (The tank has 10k max HP and is now down to 6k... lets stop him taking 4k damage, and then heal him for another 4k with a .5 sec cast spell (effectively healing for 8k)). That gets even more crazy-bananas-silly when your tank can heal themselves for 2.5k already (and all of that gets increased again by X% with the Hirode line of abilities like Hirode's Presence.)

    Add:  I'm 99% certain that will be changed.

    Yeah, in it's current form - it's completely broken and overpowered! Incoming nerf bat!

    • 13 posts
    February 11, 2020 8:43 PM PST

    I could see there be a possiblity of Multiple types of seeds aswell.  Something akin to how you can only apply a single Hunter Sting or Warlock Curse PER TARGET (taken from World of Warcraft as well). But again, we dont have all abilities and its all specutaltion untill they tell us or when its released. Would be pretty cool to have different types of seeds that do different things, giving us situational usaged. 

     

    • 47 posts
    February 16, 2020 6:31 AM PST

    I had not seen what Fragile had posted before.  However, I had originally thought of the ability as if absorbed only part of the damage coming in.  So for example if your tank has Verdanfire seed on and is hit for 1k, his mitigation reduces that amount to 600, then Verdant fire seed shields 50% of that hit until it reaches it's max shielding amount.  This would make the ability much more usable as it'd be a combination of mitigation and healing.  If it doesn't work that way now(as it appears it doesn't) maybe the nerf could swing it that way.

    • 22 posts
    February 18, 2020 9:16 AM PST

     

    If it work how i think it does in my mind, i think its an amazing spell the problem will be as @Baldur said "heal sniping" could make the effectiveness alot less appealing. However 40% of there HP as a shield is still really powerful (10sec CD when it pops isnt bad.) and imagine a boss fight and the tank is getting smashed, takes 60% of his HP is one hit.. (RIP) becomes more useful, but with cooldown and cost seems pretty low.

    Also wondering about how it can be multi-target but only active on ONE if it acts like a "stance" (for lack of a better term, maybe button that appears above ability bar.) Example. Player 1, and Player 2 both have it but you target Player 2, and click the stance button and its actives the seed.

     

    but hey i'm just speculating.

     


    This post was edited by snowtrudger at February 18, 2020 9:16 AM PST
    • 11 posts
    April 2, 2020 7:24 PM PDT

    That cast on multiple targets but active on one sounds like if you cast on more then one person then the first one that takes damage will go active and then when it is used up it goes active on the next person that takes damage. 

    If that is the case it would be only cast on the raid tank and off tank. Otherwise the main tank goes down and a DPS gets hit by an AOE or add and would become the next to benefit it if it was cast on anyone else beside the tanks. Makes it more situational and forced the druid to  house who gets and who doesnt.