Forums » The Monk

Monk - 'Burning Questions' (Joppa)

    • 494 posts
    December 7, 2019 9:15 PM PST

    1) Will Feign Death be a true 'iconic ability' like it turned into in EverQuest, or will it be a watered down version based upon the negative perception of the ability from some members of the community?

    2) Have monks gone through or plan to go through a re-work given how one-dimensional (DPS) they seemed during PA4 (including their resources)?

    3) If you are sticking with the "off-tank" as a secondary role, how do you plan to make it less of a burden for a healer, to now heal 2 tanks instead of one?

    4) Sticking with the off-tank theme, we saw that monks had short tanking cooldowns (Mountain Pose, etc) - what is the goal for such a short duration of tanking (other than pulling/splitting). Ignore if answered by question 3.

    5) Do you plan to have monks and rogues similar in damage per second, given that they are the pure melee classes?

    6) Similar to question 5- If Rogues have Stealth, Poisons, DPS, Ropes, Pick-lock, and Mez - why bring a Monk...ever?

    7) We have seen dual-wielding, but are double and maybe triple auto-attacks planned for the Monk (and maybe other classes)?

    • 1874 posts
    December 8, 2019 6:08 AM PST

    8) How will the Gates work ? Will activating a gate tied skill consume all ressource, will it only consume the amount required to open that gate, or will it consume the amount between this gate or the previous ? (TLDR : Empty bar everytime, static ramping up cost or equal cost with simply pooling requirement ? )

     

    9) Will the unarmed monk have innate damage ? Will it be viable or only a last resort option ?

     

    10) Will the monk have innate armor/dodges higher than other classes ? They seem build for light specific gear like it was in EQ, but how will it translate to their resistance to blows ?

     

    11) How is the purpose of an offtank different from a second tank in a group ?

     

    12) How will animation works if auto attacks and special attacks do clip with each others, since the monk looks like beeing a fast attacker ?

    • 383 posts
    December 8, 2019 6:40 AM PST

    I have a terrible interest in having the chakra system elaborated on, but Im not a monk. Can a monk form a better question surrounding the chakra system if that community is interested?

    • 1874 posts
    December 8, 2019 6:48 AM PST

    Alyonyah said:

    I have a terrible interest in having the chakra system elaborated on, but Im not a monk. Can a monk form a better question surrounding the chakra system if that community is interested?

     

    I think my first question should cover it ^^

    • 383 posts
    December 8, 2019 6:59 AM PST

    The gates are the chakras? VERY interesting.

    • 1874 posts
    December 8, 2019 7:45 AM PST

    Chakra is built to open gates, and gates spend chakra when used. Now only one skill specify it burns all chakras and the others are not specified so I'd like some fresh info on it.

    • 1127 posts
    December 8, 2019 11:46 AM PST

    MauvaisOeil said:

    8) How will the Gates work ? Will activating a gate tied skill consume all ressource, will it only consume the amount required to open that gate, or will it consume the amount between this gate or the previous ? (TLDR : Empty bar everytime, static ramping up cost or equal cost with simply pooling requirement ? )

    I don't remember where I saw or read it, but I believe that the Gates are mostly volume indicators for the Monk's combat resource, which is an energy called Chakra. Just like the ¼, ½, ¾ marks on your car's gas tank. Since there are 6 gates, having numerical designations for every 16⅔ % of your combat resource is rather immersion-breaking LoL. Having "The Gate of Anger, Gate of Peace, Gate of Sorrow, Gate of Joy, Gate of Balance and Gate of Release" sounds WAY more heroic and inspiring, yes?

     

    So, an ability that needs the Gate of Sorrow (3rd of 6) open to cast means you have to have your resource bar at least half full to cast it. If your bar was full, it will now be half full.

     

    Of course I could be wrong and it could be way more complicated than this.


    This post was edited by Jothany at December 8, 2019 11:50 AM PST
    • 383 posts
    December 8, 2019 12:04 PM PST

    Should be atleast 7 gates, but that will likely be added later. What your describing is super cool.... because this is how real humans tap into the supernatural. You have to clean and fill your cup to raise the serpent on the staff/open the 7 seals. It is real. This is how to achieve the experience of enlightenment .... So this information is blowing my mind to see here..

    This is terribly deep for a game, and I hope it causes some of us to learn the under lying truth of spiritual birth. If it does (and it undoubtedly will for some) brads sphere of tiphereth will be truly epic, and Im all for helping the man who helped all of us.

     

    ~Malkiyah

    • 1127 posts
    December 8, 2019 12:21 PM PST

    I honestly don't see the Monk as any more of an entry to Eastern spirituality than Cleric, Shaman or Druid being one for their respective cultural inclinations. But if it resonates for you -or anyone-  then sure, it's a 'bonus reward' of the game.

    • Moderator
    • 9055 posts
    December 9, 2019 4:03 AM PST

    Thread cleaned up, please remain in topic :)

    • 12 posts
    December 18, 2019 3:28 AM PST

    11) How is the purpose of an offtank different from a second tank in a group ?

    Second tank in group is a full tank. You go with 2 tanks because you need them for this kind of encounter.

    In a normal group setup, mostly a second tank is not neccesary. But an off tank can grab the mob from an over-pull or if the tank died till rezzed, cleared or wiped. You still can benefit from the better dps output and the other benefits this class provides.

    10) Will the monk have innate armor/dodges higher than other classes ? They seem build for light specific gear like it was in EQ, but how will it translate to their resistance to blows ?

    If we look at the skills we already saw, monks will have dodge and parry naturally increased with levels. This should be higher then other classes, but will see in future.

    3) If you are sticking with the "off-tank" as a secondary role, how do you plan to make it less of a burden for a healer, to now heal 2 tanks instead of one?

    As the monk will be more of an avoidence tank with different skills to do so, in best case, the healer won't need to heal the off tank or others. In best case, the group only needs one tank, and if its good at tanking, there no need to be the off tank all the time. But good to be able to off tank if needed with the skills to be an off-tank. In the end, its always easier to heal the off tank then the "Thunder-casting-aggro-getting-Roennick-sorc". The variety of defensive skills, for me, is fine to go as an off tank. Playerskills will determine how good the off tank will be at last.

     

    Just in general from a statement on monks long time ago:

    We spoke with Creative Director Chris Perkins about the Monk, and while the class is still very much a work in progress, he had few interesting design ideas about the class he shared with us. The Monk is envisioned not as just a fantastic pulling class, but also as capable melee DPS, short term crowd control and as a suitable offtank. The class will feature two specializations - Body and Soul. Body will be the prototypical hand-to-hand DPS class while Soul is envisioned to be a stalwart off-tank with self-healing mechanics and high avoidance. Fans of the traditional Monk and of Vanguards Disciple will feel right at home with this highly utilitarian class.

    • 494 posts
    December 18, 2019 6:35 PM PST

    TaskenDart said:

    11) How is the purpose of an offtank different from a second tank in a group ?

    Second tank in group is a full tank. You go with 2 tanks because you need them for this kind of encounter.

    In a normal group setup, mostly a second tank is not neccesary. But an off tank can grab the mob from an over-pull or if the tank died till rezzed, cleared or wiped. You still can benefit from the better dps output and the other benefits this class provides.

    10) Will the monk have innate armor/dodges higher than other classes ? They seem build for light specific gear like it was in EQ, but how will it translate to their resistance to blows ?

    If we look at the skills we already saw, monks will have dodge and parry naturally increased with levels. This should be higher then other classes, but will see in future.

    3) If you are sticking with the "off-tank" as a secondary role, how do you plan to make it less of a burden for a healer, to now heal 2 tanks instead of one?

    As the monk will be more of an avoidence tank with different skills to do so, in best case, the healer won't need to heal the off tank or others. In best case, the group only needs one tank, and if its good at tanking, there no need to be the off tank all the time. But good to be able to off tank if needed with the skills to be an off-tank. In the end, its always easier to heal the off tank then the "Thunder-casting-aggro-getting-Roennick-sorc". The variety of defensive skills, for me, is fine to go as an off tank. Playerskills will determine how good the off tank will be at last.

     

    Just in general from a statement on monks long time ago:

    We spoke with Creative Director Chris Perkins about the Monk, and while the class is still very much a work in progress, he had few interesting design ideas about the class he shared with us. The Monk is envisioned not as just a fantastic pulling class, but also as capable melee DPS, short term crowd control and as a suitable offtank. The class will feature two specializations - Body and Soul. Body will be the prototypical hand-to-hand DPS class while Soul is envisioned to be a stalwart off-tank with self-healing mechanics and high avoidance. Fans of the traditional Monk and of Vanguards Disciple will feel right at home with this highly utilitarian class.

    Sigh. None of your "answers" actually answer anything. Monk offtanking abilities are very short-duration (from what we saw in PA4), as in 10 sec duration or so...offtanking for 10 secs at a time doesn't really add anything other than maybe time for your enchanter/rogue/bard to mez it - and - then we are back to question #6. Also, they aren't using specializations anymore - as that quote from Joppa is far out dated. Please stick to the topic of this post, Kilsin where art thou?

    • 12 posts
    December 19, 2019 12:18 AM PST

    Also, they aren't using specializations anymore - as that quote from Joppa is far out dated.

    @Fragile:you know what are the plans? Got some links? Seems like i missed something :(

     

    I'm pretty interested what the devs have to tell as well! We didn't get much update on the monk in several newsletters. Non of "burning questions" except FD mentioned in newsletter. Combat ressource wasn't in newsletter at all. So @devs its time to get the monk some love!!!

    Really hope, it's similar to the "Vanguards" Monk ;)

     

    Till now, we have seen several known abilities that are really strong on their own or/and also combined with others. The defensive abilities combined with natural higher avoidance, there will be more time than just 10sec of tanking.

    Not really sure where i have seen or read this, but i have it written down on my PC. All infos are from streams or official forums. Monk could choose from different passives?!?! One was, all healing effects are increased by 20%. Combined with the self heals IF affected, will get you nice results to survive/tank. Guess this was the other passive instead of "Serenity" or "SereneCombat" or what it was called.

     

    There are for now enough abilities that helps with tanking. Combining and timing cooldowns will be key.

     

    Initiate ofthe Wandering Winds: Yourbase Agility and Dodge Chance are permanently increased.

    Mountain Pose: "You will your body to become hard as stone, increasing your Armor Class

    RockStance: Your bodybecomes hard as stone, purging minor Poison and Disease effects and increasingyour Armor Class for 10 seconds.

    Ebb andFlow: Align your breathing with the rhythm of your Chi, increasing your chance to Dodge by 10%and granting a 60% chance to counter-attack incoming Melee damage for 20seconds

    Chi Harmonics: Align your breathing with the rhythm of your Chi, increasing your chance to Dodge by 20%and granting a 100% chance to counter-attack incoming Melee damage for 20seconds

    The Will to Live: (Self-Only) When activated, all defensive passives will be successful for 6 seconds.

    Seven HandsForm:  Redirectyour Chi with masterful speed and precision, blocking the next 6 sources of Physical damage.

    Union: Perfectly align yourbody and soul, instantly restoring 20 Chi and 25% of your total Health, thenhealing 2% of your total Health every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.

    ResonatingPalm:  A powerfulstrike that deals Physical damage and heals you for 25% of your Max Health.


    DoubleBackflip:  You performa series of backflips, moving yourself out of harm's way and Dodging allPhysical damage for 5 seconds

    Last of Chi: Release all of your Chi in a violent explosion against the target, dealing high Physical damage. Thisability will stun you and the target for 3 seconds.

     

    Can start with Mountain Pose/Rock Stance 10sec with Ebb and Flow / Chi Harmonics together. If get hit you have a direct heal and a direct + Hot. That will get you an good stand for at least 20sec.

    The Will to Live: (Self-Only) When activated, all defensive passives will be successful for 6 seconds.

    Seven HandsForm:  Redirect your Chi with masterful speed and precision, blocking the next 6 sources of Physical damage.

    DoubleBackflip:  You perform a series of backflips, moving yourself out of harm's way and Dodging all Physical damage for 5 seconds

    Last of Chi: Release all of your Chi in a violent explosion against the target, dealing high Physical damage. Thisability will stun you and the target for 3 seconds.

     

     

     

     

    • 494 posts
    December 19, 2019 1:43 AM PST

    With infinite hotkeys, Monks will be god tanks amirite (because who needs dps or pulling utility on their hotbar)? Oh and assuming none of them share CD's with each other. Don't forget you sacrfice resources to tank and heal, which then you have to re-build (takes time) to do dps...all while the rogue could just mez it or a ranger could trap it etc.

    Monks will need thier Taunt button, 2-3 def cooldowns, 2-3 heals, FD, 4-ish buttons left for any dps or interrupts (or other utility). All the while, mez or the tank tanking the extra mob is more efficient and from what we have seen, yield more dps.

    • 1890 posts
    December 19, 2019 8:13 AM PST

    Fragile said:

    With infinite hotkeys, Monks will be god tanks amirite (because who needs dps or pulling utility on their hotbar)? Oh and assuming none of them share CD's with each other. Don't forget you sacrfice resources to tank and heal, which then you have to re-build (takes time) to do dps...all while the rogue could just mez it or a ranger could trap it etc.

    Monks will need thier Taunt button, 2-3 def cooldowns, 2-3 heals, FD, 4-ish buttons left for any dps or interrupts (or other utility). All the while, mez or the tank tanking the extra mob is more efficient and from what we have seen, yield more dps.

    You thinks monks will have taunt?  

    • 12 posts
    December 19, 2019 10:52 AM PST
    Sure monk will have taunt. It’s also on official pantheon class website written. Also, the monk will have several hate generating abilities. Just look up the official site.
    • 2872 posts
    December 19, 2019 10:57 AM PST

    philo said:

    You thinks monks will have taunt?  

    Like this? 

    Iron Palm
    A heavy blow to your enemy's head which angers them, generating high threat and causing them to focus on fighting you for 3 seconds. (Generates Chakra. Requires the Gate of Anger to be open)

     

    And of course the actual taunt skill, which they have had in every stream as far as I can recall. 

    • 1890 posts
    December 19, 2019 12:18 PM PST

    I was well aware of that ability before I asked about taunt iks.  Gaining extra threat from a dmg ability is not taunt.

    I dont recall seeing a monk have taunt in the streams.

    And of course the actual taunt skill, which they have had in every stream as far as I can recall. 

    Maybe you can remind me where that was shown?

    There is the more general overview of monks being the puller, the splitter.  Monks are adept at dropping aggro, not holding it.  I would be cautious about thinking monks are going to be able to tank any difficult content.

    • 2872 posts
    December 19, 2019 1:20 PM PST

    "generating high threat and causing them to focus on fighting you for 3 seconds." Is almost the exact same text as the taunt ability in-game so it sounds like taunt to me. 

     

    The streamer who played monk in 2018 doesn't have their video up on twitch anymore so the only reference for taunt also being a monk skill in-game I can find is from the 2017 Cohh monk gameplay: https://youtu.be/xYVDrfR6ZsM?t=836

    • 1890 posts
    December 19, 2019 1:39 PM PST

    We will see how it ends up.  Monks having taunt really doesn't fit the flavor of the class.  Giving monks taunt seems like an attempt to force them into a role that they are not meant for.  

    • 1762 posts
    December 19, 2019 1:48 PM PST

    philo said:

    I was well aware of that ability before I asked about taunt iks.  Gaining extra threat from a dmg ability is not taunt.

    You're clearly not. The monk description is almost the definition of taunt as we know it from EQ, an ability that places you at the top of the hate list. You're acting like it only generates aggro via damage and ignoring the fact that it forces the enemy to attack the monk. As described, the damage component could be removed entirely and it would not change the function of the aggro manipulation. 

    Are you going to argue that paladins don't have taunt either because the name of the ability is different while the description of their ability is word for word the same as the warrior? 

    philo said:

     I would be cautious about thinking monks are going to be able to tank any difficult content.

    Who is suggesting otherwise?

    This exactly one of the "burning questions' about monks, defining the short duration/off tanking role(and how will it affect the monk's ability to do other things because of the way their resource is currently managed).

    philo said:

    We will see how it ends up.  Monks having taunt really doesn't fit the flavor of the class.  Giving monks taunt seems like an attempt to force them into a role that they are not meant for.  

    Are you serious? Their role definition is literally that of off-tank and falls directly in line with the monk classes from EQ and VG as a sturdy front line fighter with more damage mitigation(or avoidance) than the other melee DPS classes.  It's odd to see a person talking about how familiar they are with something and then posting stuff like this. 

     

    This is exactly how intelligent, well thought out posts like OP's in this thread get derailed. 


    This post was edited by Keno Monster at December 19, 2019 2:08 PM PST
    • 1890 posts
    December 19, 2019 2:09 PM PST

    Keno said: Their role efinition is literally that of off tank. It's odd to see a person talking about how familiar they are with something and then post stuff like this. 

    It does seem like VR is not putting enough emphasis on puller being a role in a group.  They have slotted monk into the off tank slot like keno mentions...which seems forced. 

    Monk is dps/off tank instead of dps/puller (which will be a much more common role for them imho than off tanking).  I don't expect a monks dps to compete with a wizard or rogue.  Kinda doubting summoner or ranger too but i guess we will see how it's tuned.  A group is not going to ever want a monk off tank as a first choice.  If an off tank is needed they will want a second tank. 

    A monk having taunt skills is nice for a last ditch effort if the tank goes down I guess.  That is an extreme circumstance and not a standard group role.  


    This post was edited by philo at December 19, 2019 2:10 PM PST
    • 1762 posts
    December 19, 2019 2:19 PM PST

    philo said:

     

    A monk having taunt skills is nice for a last ditch effort if the tank goes down I guess.  That is an extreme circumstance and not a standard group role.  

    Then why is their group role literally defined as off-tank? And why are a huge % of their currently listed abilities directly related to mitigating/taking/healing damage? Why does their class description say "powerful defensive and self-healing abilities."

     

    Mountain Pose
    - Increases AC

    Strike of the Wandering Mind
    - Inflicts your enemy with all of the Physical damage you have taken in the last 5 seconds and heals you for the same amount.

    Kata of the Wandering Wind
    - Dramatically increasing your chance to Dodge and counter-attacking every melee attack that does damage to you.

    Iron Palm
    - A heavy blow to your enemy's head which angers them, generating high threat and causing them to focus on fighting you for 3 seconds.

    Resonating Palm
    - A powerful strike that inflicts high damage and heals you for 60% of the damage dealt.

    Harmonious Bond
    - Perfectly align your body and soul, instantly restoring 10% of your total Health, increasing your attack speed and restoring an additional 15% of your total health over a short time

    All of these are combat abilities to support their role as an off tank.

    The Monk must learn to open these gates in order to wield their Chakra without limits, releasing it in a torrent of punishing damage, or in the form of powerful defensive and self-healing abilities.

    • 1890 posts
    December 19, 2019 2:49 PM PST

    Keno Monster said:

    philo said:

     

    A monk having taunt skills is nice for a last ditch effort if the tank goes down I guess.  That is an extreme circumstance and not a standard group role.  

    Then why is their group role literally defined as off-tank? 

    Exactly.  Why is it?  If everyone would rather have one of the other 3 tanking classes when an offtank is needed why would VR name monk as the only class listed as "offtank"?  

    The answer was already mentioned above.  The monk's role will likely be puller more often than actually off tanking.

    The healing abilities are standard monk flavor.  I think we all expect them to be able to pop a discipline and tank for a few seconds.  To say that their 2 primary roles in groups will be dps and offtanking seems very unlikely to actually play out that way.  It seems forced.  

    Edit:   From all the monk streams, everything plays out similar to other monks in other games.  I haven't seen anything that shows that these monks are going to be able to offtank any better than monks in any other game.  Maybe I will be surprised and monks will be first choice as offtanks against difficult mobs?  I doubt it.

     

     

     


    This post was edited by philo at December 19, 2019 2:56 PM PST
    • 2872 posts
    December 19, 2019 3:04 PM PST

    Off-tanking as I understand it here means they will be able to pick up a mob if s**t hits the fan and the tank goes down or for a limited time should a mez break or unexpected add show up until it gets mez'd. They are a bit of a safety net but not intended to be able to stand toe to toe with a mob for longer than maybe 20 seconds, after which their defensive cooldowns will likely be blown and they will fold like any other DPS would.