Was there anything in streams that showed us how do water (and most importantly underwater) looks like in Terminus? Any swimming done? Or is it still to early for that?
I quite enjoy swimming and most importantly diving - especially when it's connected with exploring secret areas - but unfortunately most games have such visually terrible water as well as swimming/diving mechanics that it makes something fun really unpleasant. I hope VR will pay great attention to this aspect of the game - especially when we have so deeply water connected race as well as Terminus lore.
They did a stream some time back that showed water from a surface but not under water.
I always found underwater monsters to be the scariest, giant sharks trying to gobble you up, seeing their giant fins sticking out the water. I can't wait to see what pantheon has in store for us to make us afraid to go for a swim in the deep dark sea.
I've been set on playing a Dwarf cleric since 2014, but after seeing the dark myr passives im tempted to play a dark myr that underwater breathing is going to be a god send and being able to swim away from stuff faster thats a nice perk.
Kilsin talked about using DM powers to hover high above water and summon his party so they dropped into the water and had to swim back to land.
The recent dev round table info mentions Dark Myr having a swimming speed bonus.
Swimming is definitely in.
I'm sure there will be underwater 'action/adventure', but I've not heard tell of anything specific yet.
disposalist said:I'm sure there will be underwater 'action/adventure', but I've not heard tell of anything specific yet.
It all comes down to how much of the world's content actually exists underwater. 10%? 5%? 1%? EQ1 had Ocean of Tears and Erud's Crossing, both large bodies of water yet was there actual content under water that players wanted to experience in those zone? Nope. Just big empty stretches of water. But there was Kedge Keep...which was rarely if ever visited initially. Had SoE not put epic drops on that $&@*(!# fish Phinigel, nobody would ever have a reason to go there. Kunark didn't have any underwater zones and Velious had what, Siren's Grotto which was only partially underwater?
Point being, underwater content has been and will more likely continue to be, a very very small part of the game content. So small that I predict, right now, thatoutside of the Dark Myr you will very well make it to 50 without ever going into a water filled zone.
I think VR should step up and deliver on more underwater/water content. Since they are taking their time and exploration will be big. Climbing and swimming are major systems. Why not have some deep canyon river adventures. You can have a several zones that are river delta jungle and canyons. not to mention the underwater stuff
do it and do it big.
BamBam said: I Agree with dark myr in the game. Water should be a factor to be recon with. Also under water monster can, could and should be a true monster :)
Full album for you. https://imgur.com/a/NKgVyJ6
Vandraad said:disposalist said:I'm sure there will be underwater 'action/adventure', but I've not heard tell of anything specific yet.
It all comes down to how much of the world's content actually exists underwater. 10%? 5%? 1%? EQ1 had Ocean of Tears and Erud's Crossing, both large bodies of water yet was there actual content under water that players wanted to experience in those zone? Nope. Just big empty stretches of water. But there was Kedge Keep...which was rarely if ever visited initially. Had SoE not put epic drops on that $&@*(!# fish Phinigel, nobody would ever have a reason to go there. Kunark didn't have any underwater zones and Velious had what, Siren's Grotto which was only partially underwater?
Point being, underwater content has been and will more likely continue to be, a very very small part of the game content. So small that I predict, right now, thatoutside of the Dark Myr you will very well make it to 50 without ever going into a water filled zone.
I think Kedge is a good and bad example. It was complex and challenging, but because it was buggy and glitchy people hated it. The issues of monsters aggroing through walls and pathing weirdly was bad enough in 'normal' dungeons, and was exacerbated hugely by them existing above and below floating underwater. Graphics/visibility was also painful underwater in EQ. And movement was clunky.
I think how much underwater adventure there is will depend on how well the engine handles 3D encounters and how much 'fun' it actually is to have encounters in 3D. If the engine struggles or it turns out to be frustrating then *shrug* I guess there won't be much.
You'd think if they are going to make extensive use of climbing that they will be able to handle 'floating' though?
I'll join the underwater or shoreline/coastline/semi submerged-island content fans. They've created a race that's all about water so you best deliver enough content around that as well. The majority might still be on the land, but there sure is potential for a lot of water related content. This could indeed be caverns, canyons where folk can swim into with the occasional air filled cavities. Underwater tunnels or strongholds were one needs to juggle between fighting mobs and timing yourself not to drown between those pockets of air.
There could be room to allow exploration and as people travel under water, they might encounter mobs that they can pull onland or fight along the edge of the water. So the mobs might stay in the water or come on land altogether. This creates unique takes on positioning for tanks and other groupmembers. There is plenty of room for fighting animation when you're only kneedeep in the water. The odd stoneplacement could already offer some refuge for those shorter races if need be.
Best water animation that I"ve experienced was Landmark, so for those devs that dipped their toe in that, please please consider what they've done. It was truely immersive and breathtaking. (sounds included)
Well Dark Myrs are one thing - but I think the whole sky (inland)/water dragons drama may play a big role in the whole game, so I would expect to fight couple of water dragon bosses (among other creatures) . I do hope that water zones (and zone parts) will take roughly 25% of all Terminus.
Hegenox said:Was there anything in streams that showed us how do water (and most importantly underwater) looks like in Terminus? Any swimming done? Or is it still to early for that?
I quite enjoy swimming and most importantly diving - especially when it's connected with exploring secret areas - but unfortunately most games have such visually terrible water as well as swimming/diving mechanics that it makes something fun really unpleasant. I hope VR will pay great attention to this aspect of the game - especially when we have so deeply water connected race as well as Terminus lore.
Given that they have made an entire climate system around it, anerobic (pressure), I suspect that it will be a thing. They have also said that the Myr will have a racial anerobic resistance. With this in mind I would be very surprised if there weren't any underwater encounters.
Kalok said:Given that they have made an entire climate system around it, anerobic (pressure), I suspect that it will be a thing. They have also said that the Myr will have a racial anerobic resistance. With this in mind I would be very surprised if there weren't any underwater encounters.
Exactly. I can see not having: housing, mounts, Voice chat system, and other less critical things in the game at launch. But Climate and atmosphere are a large part of content. World building should be paramount in this game. If there is a body of water something should be in it. Rivers and streams should lead somewhere, they should be part of a travel system. give me something to contend with.
From The Pantheon Difference -
One of Pantheon’s tenets is ‘Engage the World!’ When we talk about being a PvE MMO, our definition of ‘environment’ means a lot more than just fighting NPCs -- players will be contending with the world itself.
Kalok said:Hegenox said:Was there anything in streams that showed us how do water (and most importantly underwater) looks like in Terminus? Any swimming done? Or is it still to early for that?
I quite enjoy swimming and most importantly diving - especially when it's connected with exploring secret areas - but unfortunately most games have such visually terrible water as well as swimming/diving mechanics that it makes something fun really unpleasant. I hope VR will pay great attention to this aspect of the game - especially when we have so deeply water connected race as well as Terminus lore.
Given that they have made an entire climate system around it, anerobic (pressure), I suspect that it will be a thing. They have also said that the Myr will have a racial anerobic resistance. With this in mind I would be very surprised if there weren't any underwater encounters.
It could very well be 'a thing' even if it exists in only a single zone...just sayin'. Nothing says it will be widespread, especially since we have how many different enviornment/climate things listed so far. 10?
Vandraad said:disposalist said:I'm sure there will be underwater 'action/adventure', but I've not heard tell of anything specific yet.
It all comes down to how much of the world's content actually exists underwater. 10%? 5%? 1%? EQ1 had Ocean of Tears and Erud's Crossing, both large bodies of water yet was there actual content under water that players wanted to experience in those zone? Nope. Just big empty stretches of water. But there was Kedge Keep...which was rarely if ever visited initially. Had SoE not put epic drops on that $&@*(!# fish Phinigel, nobody would ever have a reason to go there. Kunark didn't have any underwater zones and Velious had what, Siren's Grotto which was only partially underwater?
Point being, underwater content has been and will more likely continue to be, a very very small part of the game content. So small that I predict, right now, thatoutside of the Dark Myr you will very well make it to 50 without ever going into a water filled zone.
There was also Plane of Water when Planes of Power released. It had a raid mob called Coirnav that was an elemental flag you had to have to get into the elemental planes and eventually plane of time in EQ. The raid encounter was more of a zerg fest than anything. Our guild had problems with this particular encounter we were built for stability and not zerging. We actually got Rallos Zek down before Coirnav and he was much more difficult of an encounter.
Required under water breathing of course, and had to have items because I do believe there was either a spell strip or a timing factor that required you to have EB. Everybody usually cringed when it came time to do that encounter it wasn't the most pleasant, any little type of movement and you were interupted spell casting. Even if somebody bumped into you. Glad we only had to do that encounter a hand ful of times for new guildmates.
Kedge had it's exp bonus so there was an elite few with EB that would exp down there, I don't really recall anyone going to PoWater for anything but the flag raid. Underwater stuff is only saught after until it's there and then it's never really used.
Moloka said:There was also Plane of Water when Planes of Power released. It had a raid mob called Coirnav
You've helped me make my point. In an entire expanion, Planes of Power, you had 1 zone where water was a factor. I don't rememver there being a single underwater zone in Gates of Discord or Omens of War. So by Omens of War you had what, 150 zones? Maybe 175? And just 2 of them were actually dedicated to underwater content with a couple more just having water components but lacked actual content?
With 10 or so Environments/Climates proposed, do we really expect that every zone will have some environment with which we will need to content, where we'll need some acclimation or glyphs? Highly unlikely. Rather these will be but a small portion that is further subdivided among the various proposed environments.
I know this discussion is specifically about water, but it really does apply to every environment that is not the baseline environment.
Janus said:Full album for you. https://imgur.com/a/NKgVyJ6
Well, so much for ME ever going out on a boat again!
They can have plenty of underwater areas/zones, but I don't know how exactly they could go about doing it in a way that feels good for players as is always the problem. If players can find equal or better reward anywhere else that is on land then almost always players will avoid the headaches that come with underwater content. At the same time if they are "forced" into doing underwater content then unless the experience is completely fluid and none of it feels sluggish/off/janky, players will groan and hate it. Hard to make that 3D space feel good, dealing with swim speed, breath, threats from any direction that move faster than you (that tend to work on logic entirely made for land NPCs), and an often nauseating blue/gloom filter cast over everything you look at.
@iksar Nothing that spells/totem/potions/abilities can't solve for ye. Walk under water, breath under water, fish vision, etc. It's more a matter of mitigating using clever item design. But for those that want to experience the full water deal, they would still be able to. In a way, it would be up to the player to decide how long and to what degree they want to be exposed to this "nauseating blue" experience. But let's hope for the devs sake, that they do not design the water experience to be repelling, but enjoyable instead.
Hegenox said:Was there anything in streams that showed us how do water (and most importantly underwater) looks like in Terminus? Any swimming done? Or is it still to early for that?
I quite enjoy swimming and most importantly diving - especially when it's connected with exploring secret areas - but unfortunately most games have such visually terrible water as well as swimming/diving mechanics that it makes something fun really unpleasant. I hope VR will pay great attention to this aspect of the game - especially when we have so deeply water connected race as well as Terminus lore.
I think SubNautica did a fine job in presenting the somewhat claustrophobic and oppressive feel of being underwater with sudden awareness of the Z axis to add to your surroundings, and they did so fairly economically and efficiently. I found myself holding my breath at times.
Hegenox said:I just thought of something - how cool it would be for the weather to affect water reservoirs etc. - so after the rain rivers could overflow flooding some terrains or the water would stream down to caves turning some corridors into pools of water.
That could be a great environmental effect. Suppose the game releases in summer. 3 months later when Autumn comes to Terminus, the rainy season starts. Suddenly, a popular cave starts to flood on a daily or weekly basis. Not completely, but perhaps a long passageway near the entrance floods. If you don't have waterbreathing, you have to wait till the rainstorm is over or you could drown.
Talk about a dynamic world!