Forums » The Wizard

Wizard/Druid Ports Neutered?

    • 1964 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:15 PM PDT

    The fact that there will be portals that take players from one continent to another seems to negate a large portion of wizard/druid out of combat usefullness (even if players have to travel a fair distance to get to them ie: Luclin...which isn't a great starting point to progress from). 

    This is especially problematic as far as class balance if the druid/wizard teleport spells are difficult to acquire or,  as has been advertised,  may even be considered "epic" spells.

    I am acutely aware that teleport spells available to druids/wizards will be heavily nullified due to other forms of travel in an effort to shorten travel time in Pantheon and allow players to feel like they can accomplish something in only a couple hours online. 

    By allowing players to have meaningful accomplishments when they only having a couple hours of playtime, travel time will obviously be lessened compared to EQ during the early years.  If that is the case player teleports must have a much, MUCH lesser influence on the way the druid/wizard classes are balanced.  So much so that teleport abilities should be an afterthought. 

    Hopefully players won't be able to travel over land in a half hour to get to a portal that will take them to another continent.  If that is the case teleport spells have already been completely neutered. 

     

    • 1327 posts
    July 12, 2019 7:34 PM PDT

    I would imagine that they will be balanced relative to the summoners summon raft and the rogues rope trick, in other words world travel skills.  Part of a good group makeup may be a combinations of the right tools to make travel efficient and teleporting to the closest location is only the first step.

    • 2952 posts
    July 13, 2019 1:34 AM PDT

    Did I miss somewhere they confirmed there will be static/NPC portals between continents?

    • 1964 posts
    July 13, 2019 6:18 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Did I miss somewhere they confirmed there will be static/NPC portals between continents?

    Yes, that was confirmed by Kilsin long ago.  All we know about them is that they will connect continents and not be located in starting cities.

    • 1898 posts
    July 13, 2019 9:46 AM PDT

    Isn't it simply that portals from continent to continents are opened by druids and wizards ? I don't recall a "ffa portal" mensionned anywhere, and it would neuter the uses of boats and such.

    • 1964 posts
    July 13, 2019 8:38 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Isn't it simply that portals from continent to continents are opened by druids and wizards ? I don't recall a "ffa portal" mensionned anywhere, and it would neuter the uses of boats and such.

    No, this is in addition to wizard /druid teleport locations.  This is old news if you have been following closely.  I don't feel like digging it up but it has been confirmed.

    • 24 posts
    July 13, 2019 11:23 PM PDT

    I wouldn't call druid and wizard teleports neutered if they have portals between continents. Even post luclin there was still a thriving business for portals because there was only one spire per continent, there was a 15ish minute wait for them to activate, and the continents were all fairly large. What really did the druid/wizzy portal business was PoK allowing instant access to every city in the game.

    • 1898 posts
    July 14, 2019 6:02 AM PDT

    I actually found your first post about the topic.

    philo said:

    Ok I had  some time off work so I decided to take the time to look it up.  The interview below is at least one place where it has been mentioned.  I believe Brad mentioned it in an early stream as well but this is the most recent one (and the one i dug up first).

    This info is only from May.  Kils says "there was talk awhile ago, going back quite awhile" but then he follows up with "so far that's the plan".   Followed by:

    "We don't want it to take 4 hours to catch up to your guild to go on a raid...You would be able to jump in a portal, take a fair chunk of the distance out and then still have to, you know, leave early to make sure you get there on time"

    https://youtu.be/9EyoahxPeT8?t=4757

    Note that he specifically refers to it as a portal and not as getting a teleport.  Also, the question after that is answered about wizard teleports has a different answer from the portals that are referred to in the previous question.

    Edit:

    There is a thread discussing the interview I linked above where Kils clarified what he said in the interview.

    Kilsin said:  We have said for years that we ware looking at putting a portal on each continent to allow travel between them, along with boats etc. but we want travel to be meaningful and still a challenge and something you should prepare for with long journeys.

    It doesn't get much more clear than that ^.

     

    I didn't however listen to the audio linked as I am on mobile for a few weeks. You quote remain very vague even if it seems pretty much boat-like with a less humble picture.

    • 1964 posts
    July 14, 2019 7:36 AM PDT

    Thanks for digging that up mauv. That is indeed where it was talked about once, but that is only part of it. It was definitely unclear in that interview so myself and a couple others asked for clarification here on the forum. Kils clarified for us. There will be portals from one continent to another.  It sounds like maybe only one or a couple per continent, and yes it is just a faster version of a boat if you think about it like that.

    My concern is that the wizard/druid portal spells have been mentioned as having "epic" type versions. If that is the case, and VR is designing the game in a way that allows players to make meaningful progress in only a short, 2 or 3 hour session as has been talked about...

    Will that end up sacrificing the usefulness of player teleports because there will be so many other options for travel?

    "Epic" teleport spells don't seem very epic if anyone can travel from continent to continent in under an hour. Maybe those will simply end up being a very low priority epic spell to attain?

    Maybe I'm getting to caught up on the word "epic" thinking it should be one of the best in the game? Even if it teleports a whole raid...if travel is made easy enough to allow people to find groups and have a quality game session in only 2 hours, I'm concerned about their usefulness.

    Again, it seems like we are starting from a baseline of Luclin portals. It isn't pok books of course but it still was a time when wizard/druid teleports took a huge hit in being useful. This sounds like much of the same...at least those teleport spells were easy to acquire and werent considered "epic" when they were essentially made almost useless by adding portals in eq.

    My concern is not the portals themselves, but that we keep seeing the word "epic"  and class defining quests used in conjunction with player teleport spells.

    They seem to be giving player teleports to much emphasis when there will be so many other forms of travel available.


    This post was edited by philo at July 14, 2019 7:44 AM PDT
    • 129 posts
    July 14, 2019 9:43 AM PDT

    I know this may cause a bit of consternation, but I'm actually ok with druids and wizards NOT having teleport spells.

    I think druids being a pet class, and having SoW type buffs, plus damage sheilds etc like EQ may be enough class distinction.  Wizards would still be the nukers, and the main spell game DPS.   Each would still have great use.

    For porting, Im fine with a guild port device in guild halls so you can join a raid, and NPC portals that require some payments, or quest to be able to use.

    In EQ, I felt the economy was ruined by druids and to a lesser extent Wizzies, getting rich at the expense of all the melee classes, and would like to avoid that Two-Tier economy here.  I think that both classes will get enough love that they are happy with THIS game, which of course does not need to be, nor should be, exactly the same as EQ.

     

     

    • 1964 posts
    July 14, 2019 10:09 AM PDT

    Nagasakee said:

    I know this may cause a bit of consternation, but I'm actually ok with druids and wizards NOT having teleport spells.

     

    They do have teleport spells so this is kind of moot.

    • 24 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:40 PM PDT

    Really its going to depend on the size of the continents. Taking the luclin portal to get to say grobb or freeport still involved a huge amount of travel time for instance. Similarly getting to seb from the Dreadlands was a long journey on foot, a druid or wizzie portal however cut the travel time significantly and I still regularly got tells asking for ports from random people after Luclin went live because of how much time it would save players. I think its too early to go all doom and gloom on the subject since we dont know how the portals will function (ie is there a wait timer involved), how big zones are going to be, or how many zones on each continent there are.

    • 1 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:52 PM PDT

    i was a druid in EQ when the Planes of Power expansion came out.......i loved the new zones and raids, but the portals really hurt the group invites

    • 1964 posts
    July 14, 2019 9:10 PM PDT

    Serillen said:

    I think its too early to go all doom and gloom on the subject since we dont know how the portals will function (ie is there a wait timer involved), how big zones are going to be, or how many zones on each continent there are.

    As someone who said that I didn't think we would see whitethaw on release, even though VR still says we will, back in 2016 maybe you are right?  That may be part of it.  I don't expect the travel time between continents to be anywhere close to EQ during Luclin..when the portals caused a noticeable difference, or kunark /release.

    We have been promised an updated atlas for over 4 years now. 

    I expect 2 continents on release with a very short travel time required by comparison making player teleports much less necessary than what many of us remember...let alone being important enough for them to be considered class defining quests or being considered epic spells.

    • 424 posts
    July 15, 2019 1:01 AM PDT
    Fixed portals... druids teleporting... grrrrrrrr....
    If only wizards were the only class who figured out teleportation. Other people could still travel easily across the world, they'd just need to petition one of the wizards! Such a cool, and unfortunately missed, opportunity there. But that's not what this thread's about, and VR rocks, of course.
    • 3274 posts
    July 15, 2019 11:33 AM PDT

    Being that I have ALWAYS played a wizard from the 1990's onwards....I am hoping for my wizard and druid brethren...that we have this utility to serve the Pantheon community. 

    In my case if I was porting "strangers" ..donations were always voluntary,  except in the case where I needed reagents for a specific Plane...to port a group to.    Hopefully we keep this....I think it is another part of community building where people rely on other folks to get things accomplished.   I always enjoyed this feature of the wizard....the "rescues" (evacs) and such...my own opportunity to be a mini hero...and sometimes rescuing newbies stranded by others in zones too high for them to survive in.    Please keep this feature for wizards and druids.  

     

    Faithfully,

     

    Cana

    • 3274 posts
    July 15, 2019 11:41 AM PDT

    philo said:

    Thanks for digging that up mauv. That is indeed where it was talked about once, but that is only part of it. It was definitely unclear in that interview so myself and a couple others asked for clarification here on the forum. Kils clarified for us. There will be portals from one continent to another.  It sounds like maybe only one or a couple per continent, and yes it is just a faster version of a boat if you think about it like that.

    My concern is that the wizard/druid portal spells have been mentioned as having "epic" type versions. If that is the case, and VR is designing the game in a way that allows players to make meaningful progress in only a short, 2 or 3 hour session as has been talked about...

    Will that end up sacrificing the usefulness of player teleports because there will be so many other options for travel?

    "Epic" teleport spells don't seem very epic if anyone can travel from continent to continent in under an hour. Maybe those will simply end up being a very low priority epic spell to attain?

    Maybe I'm getting to caught up on the word "epic" thinking it should be one of the best in the game? Even if it teleports a whole raid...if travel is made easy enough to allow people to find groups and have a quality game session in only 2 hours, I'm concerned about their usefulness.

    Again, it seems like we are starting from a baseline of Luclin portals. It isn't pok books of course but it still was a time when wizard/druid teleports took a huge hit in being useful. This sounds like much of the same...at least those teleport spells were easy to acquire and werent considered "epic" when they were essentially made almost useless by adding portals in eq.

    My concern is not the portals themselves, but that we keep seeing the word "epic"  and class defining quests used in conjunction with player teleport spells.

    They seem to be giving player teleports to much emphasis when there will be so many other forms of travel available.

     

    Any spell that is labelled "epic" and can be sold on the auction...will have exhoribtant price tags attached...I fought the black market on wizzie spells in Everquest.    Did a lot of hunting in Skyfire (solo mostly) and any spells that dropped...I GAVE away to people who didn't have the funds for the ridiculously expensive spells sold on the black market.   If I have to do that again...I WILL.   *thumbs her nose at the greedy.*

     

    Cana


    This post was edited by CanadinaXegony at July 15, 2019 11:42 AM PDT
    • 101 posts
    July 15, 2019 6:38 PM PDT

    Well- I can see a couple of ways this can go that wouldn't really destroy the usefulness-

    Druids and Wizards might have different (And likely many more) locations to port to than the continental ports/boats would. Perhaps they would be closer to more areas, different areas, and they both would have different areas they could reach etc.. Which means they would still be sought after.

    The Druid/Wiz Ports would be instant portals- The others may be on a timer of 15 minutes.. And you wouldn't have to run to the zone to catch the Continent Portal/Boat.

    We may see Evacuations or Escape Spells- Not really a "port" - but still useful for raids and such.

    I still see Guilds using Wizards and Druids as a Taxi service for their players to muster for Events/Raids despite the idea that they have a portal system would mean that they "Make it on time" to said things..

    I think there are a lot of ways that they can keep the utility of it, as well as keeping it meaningful.

    • 1964 posts
    July 15, 2019 8:01 PM PDT
    Sure astartes, player teleports can still be useful even if there are other travel options.
    Should those player teleport require completing class defining quest lines to attain? Or even be considered epic difficulty to attain if the usefulness is what I expect it to be? Because of how VR has claimed short play sessions will be possible, I'm very doubtful.

    • 101 posts
    July 15, 2019 10:14 PM PDT

    philo said: Sure astartes, player teleports can still be useful even if there are other travel options. Should those player teleport require completing class defining quest lines to attain? Or even be considered epic difficulty to attain if the usefulness is what I expect it to be? Because of how VR has claimed short play sessions will be possible, I'm very doubtful.

    I think that there could be a lot of fun possibilities to come from a.. Quest line, or some means of work to get said ports- Like traveling to the Spires or Pillars or Stones (Whatever they may be) And finding a Quest Line that takes you on an adventure around the area to get attunement or to learn how to channel the magic etc..

    Epic though- I don't really feel that it should be of Epic difficulty. Then again, I pose the question of what VR will consider Epic Difficulty when they are aiming for meaningful play experiences in shorter time periods. 

    Quite a fun topic to ponder :)