Given what we've seen in Everquest as a baseline for epics, what would you like to see for your class epic (stats, passive/clicky ability) and would you like to see some variability in epics across all classes such as most of the classes aren't in the weapon slot. For myself I'd like to see druid get a mask that gives you a clicky Form Of The Great Wolf.
I think the concept of Epic Weapons, or armor even, is neat. I don't think it's been executed very well in the past. It drives a lot of bad behaviors down stream. If Epic Weapons will be part of the game then I would rethink the implementation. The funnest part of an epic weapon is the desire to have one and the journey to obtaining it. We all have a different perception of the game after we've obtained one. I would start with that in mind and see where the creative team can take it.
stellarmind said:epic weapons are fine if they are easy to lose as common gear. then you have a choice to take your best gear and risk losing it in a high end raid or using decent gear with more ease of replacing the equipment.
Losing gear I have earned (that isn't meant to be expendable, like ammunition) is maybe one of the worst game mechanics ever devised.
Chanus said:stellarmind said:epic weapons are fine if they are easy to lose as common gear. then you have a choice to take your best gear and risk losing it in a high end raid or using decent gear with more ease of replacing the equipment.
Losing gear I have earned (that isn't meant to be expendable, like ammunition) is maybe one of the worst game mechanics ever devised.
it becomes a question... is it really epic if everyone has access to it? soulbound from what i understand isn't going to exist in this game so their has to be some way for the equipment to dissappear into the ether or you'll have a economy flooded with really cheap epics.
stellarmind said:Chanus said:stellarmind said:epic weapons are fine if they are easy to lose as common gear. then you have a choice to take your best gear and risk losing it in a high end raid or using decent gear with more ease of replacing the equipment.
Losing gear I have earned (that isn't meant to be expendable, like ammunition) is maybe one of the worst game mechanics ever devised.
it becomes a question... is it really epic if everyone has access to it? soulbound from what i understand isn't going to exist in this game so their has to be some way for the equipment to dissappear into the ether or you'll have a economy flooded with really cheap epics.
The concept of Epic has to mean more to players then inflated stats. If the goal of Pantheon is immersion then there needs to be a desire for one to have an Epic Weapon, the challenge to obtaining it and appreciation for having the weapon. Once again, there are a lot of negatives that do come from Epic Weapons that I would like to see Pantheon correct in their MMO. I believe they're pretty easy conversations to have, early on, and will lead the team into a story and concept for Epic items.
I don't know the solution or creative approach to those facets for this MMO. However, a simple solution for the flooded economy scenario is to limit Epic Weapons to one per character. It may not be the most robust or fair solution but once again, it's a thought starter.
BamBam said: Im sure you cant trade an epic quest reward, like an epic weapon. But agree that in general there need to be item sinks to create some stabiliazion to the marked.
i remember hearing somewhere that vr aren't planning on having any type of soulbound or account bound system and that corpse runs involve in recovering your equipment. i'm probably just mixing up my fantasies with what they are going to have >.>
actually just disregard everything i have to say i'm pretty incoherent right now @_@
Us “ranjers” have spoken about our epics on our class page...I guess whatever ability of epicness they apply I hope it does not get overwritten by another class basic ability. Our slow proc on our mainhand weapon was a slow in eq and vanguard and shammy slow negated it all the time...My epic weapon proc is and always should be...Epic!
Soaren said:Us “ranjers” have spoken about our epics on our class page...I guess whatever ability of epicness they apply I hope it does not get overwritten by another class basic ability. Our slow proc on our mainhand weapon was a slow in eq and vanguard and shammy slow negated it all the time...My epic weapon proc is and always should be...Epic!
wut epic is not having to be ammo.
swift bow of teh western winds
30-100 damage
3.8 sec per attack
gives no stats
but unlimited ammo
"teh western winds always blow in terminus"
-some elf quoting stuff about nature and living in harmony
Having an epic ability would be, well...epic :)
I like the idea of having a limited Epic ability, liken to the ESO Ultimate ability. From an RPG perspective, it's a last ditch or hard-hitting blast of focus energy that can be unleashed. Who doesn't like to feel like they could destroy with a sudden blast like that.
BamBam said: Im sure you cant trade an epic quest reward, like an epic weapon. But agree that in general there need to be item sinks to create some stabiliazion to the marked.
Agree, Epic weapons need to be NO-TRADE
I would also add quest rewards to that, It's not like another player or another character cant run the same quest later.
Grayel said: Would be nice if Epic were living weapons, accessories or w/e that could be continuously upgraded over time so they remain BIS. Also, it would be cool if they tied it into other systems in the game, say the Progeny system, where the sacrifice of the Epic is what creates your stronger offspring.
I'm not sure having Epics be permanently best in slot, even with an upgrade path, is really a desirable outcome. It would needlessly negate item development for an inventory slot forever. Why?
It would be nice to have Epics be meaningful long term, but making them forever BiS seems to just be unnecessarily closing a door right from the beginning.
Chanus said:Grayel said: Would be nice if Epic were living weapons, accessories or w/e that could be continuously upgraded over time so they remain BIS. Also, it would be cool if they tied it into other systems in the game, say the Progeny system, where the sacrifice of the Epic is what creates your stronger offspring.I'm not sure having Epics be permanently best in slot, even with an upgrade path, is really a desirable outcome. It would needlessly negate item development for an inventory slot forever. Why?
It would be nice to have Epics be meaningful long term, but making them forever BiS seems to just be unnecessarily closing a door right from the beginning.
Thank you for the insight, making Epics always BIS could negate slot development. Unless you don't have an Epic, if you decide that the Epic (as envisioned by VR) isn't so Epic after all, etc...
But your point is well taken.
So, what is the purpose of an Epic then?
For example- as a Shaman in EQ I LOVED my Spear of Fate, loved the look. Was the Epic 2.0 better (hellz yass), the Blessed Spiritstaff of the Heyokah beat it (stat and ability-wise) in every way. EXCEPT- I HATED the way it looked. I hated that it was a 1hb club rather than the 1hp Spear (personal preference)
IF Epics were living items, I would have quested my digital arse off to combine the two and have the Spiritstaff look like the Spear of Fate.
I offer this because I want you to understand where I am coming from when I offered up my idea. However, I'm not married to the idea, I value you input and appreciate the dialogue.
I think having the Epic be BiS for a time is perfectly fine.
I know there are classes in EQ today who are still basically required to have their 2.0, which over a decade later just seems completely ridiculous.
Maybe Epics should be more of a status symbol than a usable weapon/armor piece? I don't know the correct answer or how to balance between Epics being meaningful and having them basically be necessary for well after the content they were created from is anywhere near current.
BamBam said: I hope to see weapons that under sertain situations is comparable or Even better than the epic weapons, to make sure theres not a dead item slot for late end game players.
Honestly I am pretty tired of above and beyond top tier "Epic" weapons in games.
I'd be happy if "epic" weapons/armors in Pantheon were generally better than most but still had plenty of instances where they were situationally weak/outclassed by other gear.
Hell I'd be even happier if they were just cool looking with perhaps a cool proc/clicky effect but otherwise average/equal damage to any other top tier equipment. It's a legendary blade but that just means it has a rich story or was used by someone who was a badass.