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Disappearing threads

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    • 104 posts
    April 8, 2019 7:57 PM PDT

    Post suddenly flagged as private. THere was a thread that has been around for years and I was following and now all of the sudden it's flagged as private. it's in the FAQ and still flagged as open but if I try to go to it it's now  private. Is that the direction of this game. If people discuss things the mods or devs don't like it's going to disappear?

    • 648 posts
    April 8, 2019 9:34 PM PDT
    This thread will disappear in 10 minus 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4.. :)

    I'm very amazed how much info VR shares with us, so it would be weird for them to do that. maybe it's a mistake or a bug or maybe it's a subject that is a tigging bomb wating to explode. And no body likes bombs so they got rid of it as damage control.
    • 51 posts
    April 8, 2019 10:47 PM PDT

    I hope not, but regardless, I am hoping for a EQ2flames like board to pop up when this game kicks off.

     

    Just checked the "please make women gorgeous" thread, and it is now private. Lame thing to do and all the more reason to want a fan site. I have criticized the ranger class a lot, should I be wary of a ban too?


    This post was edited by Merkades at April 8, 2019 10:51 PM PDT
    • 1233 posts
    April 8, 2019 10:53 PM PDT

    Sunglare said:

    Post suddenly flagged as private. THere was a thread that has been around for years and I was following and now all of the sudden it's flagged as private. it's in the FAQ and still flagged as open but if I try to go to it it's now  private. Is that the direction of this game. If people discuss things the mods or devs don't like it's going to disappear?

    how is a post "in the FAQ"? I have never seen a post in the FAQ.

    I have however seen a simular event where I found a post in the search, that was from the VP section. That section is indeed private to VP's. The search will find, but wont let us read but small bit's of any post, VP included.

     

    Edit: and yes, these are developmental forums and not some open forum protected by any Free Speach laws. If the Mods don't like your post becouse it violates the "Pantheon Community Guidelines" is can and likely will be deleted. 

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1595/pantheon-community-guidelines

    I don't think I have ever seen them do it without just cause.


    This post was edited by Zorkon at April 8, 2019 11:01 PM PDT
    • 375 posts
    April 9, 2019 12:07 AM PDT

    Merkades said:

    Just checked the "please make women gorgeous" thread, and it is now private. Lame thing to do

    Jeesus.. Times and their signs ^^

    Heaven forbid we offend the SJW brigade; plus, have you seen the Unity dev team? Really, have a look, get some idea of the politics. Yes, politics.. that's what happens when any a segment, no matter how petty or seemingly juvenile (gaming) grows large and profitable enough; politics enter the picture. Gloriously.

     

    Anyway, our opinions aside, this is their shop, not ours; this isn't a collective. We're here as long as we abide by their rules and while i can understand the notion of complaining (and the change it might bring), one needs, again, be aware of the politics. Meaning?

    If such a thread kicked off, really kicked off, sooner or later some Beta male (pink eyewear for extra bonus) would screenshot it to the usual channels; and then you'd have an uproar as all the other Beta males and assorted humanoids would get their virtual apoplexy, then run for their pixelated shiny armours. Serious stuff! Oppression witnessed!

    They're here (VR) to run a business. Some things, they just cannot avoid. Cut them a break.

     

    As to the OP, tact is useful in some scenarios, detrimental in others; barring their specifying which thread's loss they so sorely lament.. what's to comment on exactly? There are threads and threads, of all kinds; generalising, leaving it open like that, can potentially paint the wrong picture. It's the content of the specific thread that defines whether it merits (or not) censorship.

    So to continue in said same context of tempora and its mores, careful with the Drama(tm). We're here to abide, not reinstate.


    This post was edited by Aenra at April 9, 2019 12:10 AM PDT
    • 1142 posts
    April 9, 2019 5:58 AM PDT

    Kilsin is pretty lenient on many threads. That particular thread had run its course. But I would agree that it should not be hidden. Locked for sure.

    • 2995 posts
    April 9, 2019 8:30 AM PDT

    I am surprised the beauty thread was made private - I thought of it as amusing rather than harmful. But this does not bother me in any slightest way.

    1. These are development forums. VR can and should do whatever they like that in their opinion makes them more useful for development. They have deleted whole posts, or portions of posts, because of excess negativity (often personal attacks on other players and responses to such). Kilsin often has explained the reason - but there is no requirement that he (or anyone else at VR) do such.

    2. These are moderated forums. Moderated means *moderators*. Moderators by definition can lock or outright remove threads or posts.

    2. The phrase "free speech" is often used - but most of the time incorrectly - in forum discussions like this one. At least in terms of United States law "free speech" refers exclusively to rules preventing the government from censoring or prohibiting speech. Actually preventing is the wrong word - limiting without compelling reason is more accurate. The old but still famous Supreme Court case, for example, ruling that it was perfectly constitutional to punish someone for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. Back in the days when that was a warning that the place was burning down, not instructions to people with guns to start shooting.

    No American constitutional provision prevents private entities such as VR from limiting speech on their forums. 

     

    • 793 posts
    April 9, 2019 8:41 AM PDT

    Yeah, kind of stupid for them to hide threads, but that is their call and not ours.

    Freedom of speech doesn't apply to private entities as you can just take your business elsewhere if you don't like what they are doing. Now freedom of speech for private companies that are based on freedom of speech, or platforms for freedom of speech, IE Google, Facebook, Twitter..etc..is kind of a condondrum as if they censor someone then they go from a free speech platform to a publishing platform and can be held accountable and sued if done correctly. But Pantheon doesn't claim to hold freedom of speech so it doesn't have to follow those rules.

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 8:58 AM PDT

    Merkades said:

    I hope not, but regardless, I am hoping for a EQ2flames like board to pop up when this game kicks off.

     

    Just checked the "please make women gorgeous" thread, and it is now private. Lame thing to do and all the more reason to want a fan site. I have criticized the ranger class a lot, should I be wary of a ban too?

     

    the hidden hand is everywhere!  the illuminati sees all!  even in pantheon.... the plot thickens.

    • 104 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:00 AM PDT

    Not sure why pople are bringing up freedom of speech, nobody is invoking the first amendment. 

    There is such a thing as customer service though and if people are posting on here then you know they are paying at least paying monthly fee to do it.

    Yes this is about the beauty thread, and it's a valid discussion as long as people don't start insulting others. I saw a bunch of notifications on new reply and then when I went to check it it was private. But now nobody can see the converation and it's listed as OPEN in the FAQ. At least close it with a final message. Also what happens if somebody wants to bring it up again?  Can I start a new one with a well thoughtout post on the subject using bullet points and such? 

    As more and more people join they are going to want to put in their 2 cents on the subject. Will there be some unwritten rule that evertime somebody brings it up it will get lock or hidden? It sets a bad precedent and bad customer service. People will feel uncomfortable about commenting on anything in fear of their post getting erased or locked. What subjects of critism are accetable?  

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:05 AM PDT

    'plox make females gorgeous'  was a pretty old thread.  they probably are reviewing it and with the current political, feminism and societal movement it's a pretty precarious subject to discuss.  people are triggered easily and shortsighted nowadays so it really doesn't matter.  as far as free speech goes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJN08uqt70

    americans in the physical space are really the only country that enjoys it.  cyberspace is like another country in itself and you are subjected to their laws.  simple as that.

    • 96 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:06 AM PDT
    If you aren't used to moderation then you need to spend more time in curated forums like this.
    Sometimes a conversation has run its course. Sometimes there's no pint in the discussion any longer because it won't affect future decisions. Sometimes the company or person just doesn't care to read it for the 100th time.

    Social media has removed moderation and that's why his free speech BS is always brought up. This is a curated and moderated forum. Yeah, you have to pay for posting access.
    If one is not familiar with a moderated forum by a private company then maybe spend more time in other moderated forums and you'll see that here is no different than anywhere else.

    I don't see it as poor customer serice if a dead horse thread gets removed. I see that as saving me time.
    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:13 AM PDT

    Sunglare said:

    Not sure why pople are bringing up freedom of speech, nobody is invoking the first amendment. 

    There is such a thing as customer service though and if people are posting on here then you know they are paying at least paying monthly fee to do it.

    Yes this is about the beauty thread, and it's a valid discussion as long as people don't start insulting others. I saw a bunch of notifications on new reply and then when I went to check it it was private. But now nobody can see the converation and it's listed as OPEN in the FAQ. At least close it with a final message. Also what happens if somebody wants to bring it up again?  Can I start a new one with a well thoughtout post on the subject using bullet points and such? 

    As more and more people join they are going to want to put in their 2 cents on the subject. Will there be some unwritten rule that evertime somebody brings it up it will get lock or hidden? It sets a bad precedent and bad customer service. People will feel uncomfortable about commenting on anything in fear of their post getting erased or locked. What subjects of critism are accetable?  

     

    freedom of speech is something americans are entitled to.  it's funny to think they can bring it into a private cyberspace.  i think it's fine if you restart the thread, but that's up to the police of the forums.  there's probably something about it in the laws (tos), but who the hell even reads the tos now that they are the size of a novel?

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:14 AM PDT

    Ghool said: If you aren't used to moderation then you need to spend more time in curated forums like this. Sometimes a conversation has run its course. Sometimes there's no pint in the discussion any longer because it won't affect future decisions. Sometimes the company or person just doesn't care to read it for the 100th time. Social media has removed moderation and that's why his free speech BS is always brought up. This is a curated and moderated forum. Yeah, you have to pay for posting access. If one is not familiar with a moderated forum by a private company then maybe spend more time in other moderated forums and you'll see that here is no different than anywhere else. I don't see it as poor customer serice if a dead horse thread gets removed. I see that as saving me time.

     

    let them fight.

     

    -godzilla

    • 2995 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:46 AM PDT

    ((freedom of speech is something americans are entitled to.  it's funny to think they can bring it into a private cyberspace.  i think it's fine if you restart the thread, but that's up to the police of the forums.  there's probably something about it in the laws (tos), but who the hell even reads the tos now that they are the size of a novel?))

    Freedom of speech is entirely irrelevant unless we are discussing the government. As far as I know VR doesn't run the country - or even a state or city, Probably that is unfortunate, they might do a good job at it.

    Everyone should read any ToS before we agree to it - how can you agree to be bound by something you haven't even tried to skim? Granted not all of us do - but we should.

    • 104 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:47 AM PDT

    Ghool said: If you aren't used to moderation then you need to spend more time in curated forums like this. Sometimes a conversation has run its course. Sometimes there's no pint in the discussion any longer because it won't affect future decisions. Sometimes the company or person just doesn't care to read it for the 100th time. Social media has removed moderation and that's why his free speech BS is always brought up. This is a curated and moderated forum. Yeah, you have to pay for posting access. If one is not familiar with a moderated forum by a private company then maybe spend more time in other moderated forums and you'll see that here is no different than anywhere else. I don't see it as poor customer serice if a dead horse thread gets removed. I see that as saving me time.

     

    That's a lot of assumption, Everybody is perfectly aware of how forums are moderated these days especially in the gaming community. Funny you never see massive threads of praise ever get deleted for running it's course or beating a dead house. 

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 9:52 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    ((freedom of speech is something americans are entitled to.  it's funny to think they can bring it into a private cyberspace.  i think it's fine if you restart the thread, but that's up to the police of the forums.  there's probably something about it in the laws (tos), but who the hell even reads the tos now that they are the size of a novel?))

    Freedom of speech is entirely irrelevant unless we are discussing the government. As far as I know VR doesn't run the country - or even a state or city, Probably that is unfortunate, they might do a good job at it.

    Everyone should read any ToS before we agree to it - how can you agree to be bound by something you haven't even tried to skim? Granted not all of us do - but we should.

     

    hm.  let me clear it up.  most ppl on these forums are americans right?  so they think they can bring their entitled rights to a private forum?  not sure if im making sense.

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 10:00 AM PDT

    Sunglare said:

    Ghool said: If you aren't used to moderation then you need to spend more time in curated forums like this. Sometimes a conversation has run its course. Sometimes there's no pint in the discussion any longer because it won't affect future decisions. Sometimes the company or person just doesn't care to read it for the 100th time. Social media has removed moderation and that's why his free speech BS is always brought up. This is a curated and moderated forum. Yeah, you have to pay for posting access. If one is not familiar with a moderated forum by a private company then maybe spend more time in other moderated forums and you'll see that here is no different than anywhere else. I don't see it as poor customer serice if a dead horse thread gets removed. I see that as saving me time.

     

    That's a lot of assumption, Everybody is perfectly aware of how forums are moderated these days especially in the gaming community. Funny you never see massive threads of praise ever get deleted for running it's course or beating a dead house. 

    this is a very good point.  albeit i prefer my female characters to be more covered up, who am i to tell someone who wants to be a steel bikini babe warrior to cover up?

    i guess you are frustrated that they removed the thread without stating the rhyme or reason?  i can understand that.  it's like going to your favorite coffee shop for 2 years then they close without saying anything the next day?

    • 793 posts
    April 9, 2019 10:17 AM PDT

    Its just the way its handled, they can be put into an Archive older topics may or may not be realivent to the current game structure.

    Hidden means its probally over 30 days off topic type discussions, and if you are aware they have to keep pruning the forums all the time.

    Kilsin and others have made it very clear to keep topics together, reply only 1 time not repeat topics all over.

     

    Also there maybe a cross of information from the Champion forum to the general forum of the same topics. Stuff also in Pre Alpha maybe crossed.

    You have the right to double check with kilsin and or the other forums. You may have to up your pledge though if its not in the standard knight > down type pledge.

    I agree with the way its being done, too many off topic discussions.

    • 104 posts
    April 9, 2019 10:41 AM PDT

    Crazzie said:

    Its just the way its handled, they can be put into an Archive older topics may or may not be realivent to the current game structure.

    Hidden means its probally over 30 days off topic type discussions, and if you are aware they have to keep pruning the forums all the time.

    Kilsin and others have made it very clear to keep topics together, reply only 1 time not repeat topics all over.

     

    Also there maybe a cross of information from the Champion forum to the general forum of the same topics. Stuff also in Pre Alpha maybe crossed.

    You have the right to double check with kilsin and or the other forums. You may have to up your pledge though if its not in the standard knight > down type pledge.

    I agree with the way its being done, too many off topic discussions.

     

    Thanks for the info. I was worried about it getting off topic when we starting talking about the Dark Myr, maybe that's what happened. Looks like I'll just have to start a new one. I doubt anybody is here just to put the game down or troll. I spent years in EQ and EQ2 and this game is looking great or i wouldn't be here otherwise. :)

    • 514 posts
    April 9, 2019 11:07 AM PDT

    This really concerns me... (((takes a pause)))

    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 11:13 AM PDT

    Nanfoodle said:

    This really concerns me... (((takes a pause)))

     

    don't you mean:  this really concerns me... ((censored))?

    • 96 posts
    April 9, 2019 11:14 AM PDT
    The reason praise threads don't get deleted is because they don't devolve into useless and potentially toxic and pointless debate.

    The point of this space is to provide a safe gathering space for supporters to discuss and debate the game in a healthy and positive manner. When a thread devolves into a debate on politics, sex, or beliefs, it's going to get shut down. And that's exactly what the female characters thread was becoming.

    Second, the models and style are already chosen, concepted, and are currently being modeled. Debating the point is a useless endeavor right now because it's not going to change.

    Third, this is supposed to be a welcoming place for new pledges and old ones alike. Toxic debates and threads will not make this feel as though a warm and welcoming place for fans to gather. Instead it will become a playground of insults and toxicity tossed about without any regard for anyone new looking in.

    Assumptions aside, take a look at it from owning the business yourself and how you want new customers to perceive the fan community surrounding that business.
    • 1417 posts
    April 9, 2019 11:20 AM PDT

    Ghool said: The reason praise threads don't get deleted is because they don't devolve into useless and potentially toxic and pointless debate. The point of this space is to provide a safe gathering space for supporters to discuss and debate the game in a healthy and positive manner. When a thread devolves into a debate on politics, sex, or beliefs, it's going to get shut down. And that's exactly what the female characters thread was becoming. Second, the models and style are already chosen, concepted, and are currently being modeled. Debating the point is a useless endeavor right now because it's not going to change. Third, this is supposed to be a welcoming place for new pledges and old ones alike. Toxic debates and threads will not make this feel as though a warm and welcoming place for fans to gather. Instead it will become a playground of insults and toxicity tossed about without any regard for anyone new looking in. Assumptions aside, take a look at it from owning the business yourself and how you want new customers to perceive the fan community surrounding that business.

     

    isn't the style going to be more reserved?  that's why the og thread popped up in the first place right?  

    • 104 posts
    April 9, 2019 11:23 AM PDT

    Ghool said: The reason praise threads don't get deleted is because they don't devolve into useless and potentially toxic and pointless debate. The point of this space is to provide a safe gathering space for supporters to discuss and debate the game in a healthy and positive manner. When a thread devolves into a debate on politics, sex, or beliefs, it's going to get shut down. And that's exactly what the female characters thread was becoming. Second, the models and style are already chosen, concepted, and are currently being modeled. Debating the point is a useless endeavor right now because it's not going to change. Third, this is supposed to be a welcoming place for new pledges and old ones alike. Toxic debates and threads will not make this feel as though a warm and welcoming place for fans to gather. Instead it will become a playground of insults and toxicity tossed about without any regard for anyone new looking in. Assumptions aside, take a look at it from owning the business yourself and how you want new customers to perceive the fan community surrounding that business.

     

    Ahh "Toxic" THe new catch phrase to shut down any discussion people don't like. The game is still pre-Alpha, nothing is solid so it's still very valid to have these discussions. The last stream with Coh Carnage said they are still working on character models and animations. Nothing is a useless endeavor.