Yes they can usually fill a LOT of the classes in MMOs and more than the other races offered, but ... letting them do it ALL is really silly imo. The game is centered around groups and specific roles and they just hand everything to humans? Major flaw imo ...
You have to keep in mind that everyone playing this game is in fact human (though I have my doubts sometimes). So from the most baseline of RP standpoints, you have to give people the ability to directly transport themselves into game, or at least a re-imagining of the human they would like to be (or play). The in game response to this tends to be that humans are the most broadly attributed race, generally the worst choice for pure min/maxers.
I don't think its a bad thing, and I certainly don't think it's "just wrong". I can see how you might disagree, especially if you're one who has no interest in playing human, but I can't see how its objectively the wrong decision. In other words, I can't see how this ends up having a massive impact one way or another to warrant calling it wrong.
Iksar said:It's likely due to human being the most played race in just about any MMO/RPG, the one race that everyone can relate to/identify with. It ensures there is at least one race that can appeal to pretty much anyone while not locking them out from any particular class.
I would add that, historically speaking, humans have the potential for every kind of (good and/or bad) behavior, desire, goal, motivation, etc., and they find a way to achieve their goals. So, it makes sense to me, at least, that fickle humans would branch off in every direction to pursue whatever their hearts desired.
Iksar said:It's likely due to human being the most played race in just about any MMO/RPG, the one race that everyone can relate to/identify with. It ensures there is at least one race that can appeal to pretty much anyone while not locking them out from any particular class.
This is counterintuitive to having race/class restirictions. The race/class matrix literally ensures that people that want to play a specific race may not be able to play a specific class, therefore "locking them out from a particular class". And humans are only the most played race in games that restrict players from being the race/class combo that they want - in a fantasy MMO that allows all/all humans are not the most played race. I am NOT advocating for all/all, but I'm simply saying that a lot of people only play humans when its the most convinient or more aesthetically pleasing (not simply because they are human... a lot of males play female characters... not because they want to be female, but because they are "typically" more aesthetically pleasing than the male models).
Counterfleche said:This might be done partially in an effort to make a main city everyone can go to. It would have trainers for every class and its neutrality potentially means every race / alignment is welcome.
I believe this is one of the reasons as well @Counterfleche - they are putting a LOT of emphasis/time/money on Thronefast and want that to be the major city used by all.
Percipiens said:I would add that, historically speaking, humans have the potential for every kind of (good and/or bad) behavior, desire, goal, motivation, etc., and they find a way to achieve their goals. So, it makes sense to me, at least, that fickle humans would branch off in every direction to pursue whatever their hearts desired.
You could use this same logic to argue why humans should NOT be able to "master" every class... because they're so fickle. I mean that would make sense if humans couldn't attain the last level or something. Jacks of all trades, masters of none.
Or do you really know some human shaman and wizards IRL? That too would make sense then... because humans can be everything historically speaking I mean. :p
Making at least one race that can be every class is a very good choice from a simple marketing perspective. When any group of friends from 2 to 20 all want to play together from the start, it's a big plus to have a city they can all start in, no matter what class they choose. Even for altaholics, being able to start every one of their characters in the same city is a big plus.
As far as making that 'universal' race human, I agree with several of the points made here. Human is - on average - the most popular race. And equally important, human is the least UN-popular race. As in, you might not prefer to look like any given type of alien race, but very few people will refuse to play a game because of looking like a human.
Jothany said:Making at least one race that can be every class is a very good choice from a simple marketing perspective. When any group of friends from 2 to 20 all want to play together from the start, it's a big plus to have a city they can all start in, no matter what class they choose. Even for altaholics, being able to start every one of their characters in the same city is a big plus.
As far as making that 'universal' race human, I agree with several of the points made here. Human is - on average - the most popular race. And equally important, human is the least UN-popular race. As in, you might not prefer to look like any given type of alien race, but very few people will refuse to play a game because of looking like a human.
"Very few" is relative. I'm one of those "very few" people that care how my character looks. I will absolutely not play a game if I HAVE to look stupid compared to others in the game because the race isn't allowed to be the class I "want" to play. In my opinion, appearance means quite a bit to more people than some may think. I say it's "my opinion" but its actually a scientifically proven phenomenon that matters to everyone subconciously in video gaming (unlike in physically tangible humanoids like robots or dolls). Look up the uncanny valley theories and how important they are to the success (or failure) of a game... the uncanny valley is even more critical if you are playing a game that is supposed to represent the human speicies (opposed to a fictional species). This is one of the biggest reasons WoW was/is so successful out of the gate - they managed to maintain enough cartoon look with great responsive animations that allowed players to use their imagination to link their cartoonish avatar to the more realistic game trailers increasing immersion.
Having humans be any class may backfire if the animations and response to key presses aren't absolutely perfect.
I know this is an old thread and the information I'm going to mention is newer than when this was posted originally but...
CP liked the idea of unlocking restricted race/class options through the use of the progeny system. There is a good chance that every race will be able to play every class eventually if you put in the time to unlock them. If this ends up being the case then humans having access to all classes becomes a non-issue.
It seems like humans can do everything. It's certainly an old D&D thing. But I've always wondered why. Why are humans special? Why can they do everything in the world when no other race can do that? It never made sense to me.
Let humans suffer along with the rest of us :)
I can think of three points as to why.
1. Human do not excel at any one stat but makes then a jack of all trade type.
2. In most lore Humans reproduce like rabbits compaired to other races so there tends to be more of them population wise, offering up all classes makes their player count higher.
3. Theres more players then youd think who dont care about their Race and only about their Class, this give them their default race they dont need to worry about restrictions.
The most basic reason that 'Humans' in Fantasy lore have the ability to be/do everything is because in the real world, us Humans always define ourselves because of our adaptability. When we compare ourselves to the animals of our world: we are not as strong, we are not as quick, we can't jump as high, we cannot fly, we can't hold our breath as long, etc... But what we can do is use our Adaptability and brains to invent something that overcomes this, and makes us stronger, faster, jump higher, fly higher and faster, stay underwater longer and deeper, etc... We are the dominant species on our Earth because our main strength is our ability to find a way to overcome our weaknesses and make them our strengths. Obviously this is still a work in progress and there are still weaknesses we are inventing things to overcome, but you get the point.
So since Humans specialty is Adaptablility, in our Fantasy worlds when we create other Races we don't allow them to be as Adaptable as the Humans and instead give them other specialities.
The fact that they have access to all classes doesn't bother me at all - the only class that doesn't really "fit" humans would be a dire lord anyway - all the others are well rooted in most fantasy settings. The thing that bothers me is that humans in Pantheon seems to have an edge over most other races - from lore perspective as well as (so-far) from very good passive racials. In most games humans are kind of equivalent of jack-of-all-trades class/build - capable of all but master of none - and that always worked very well.
Hegenox said:The fact that they have access to all classes doesn't bother me at all - the only class that doesn't really "fit" humans would be a dire lord anyway - all the others are well rooted in most fantasy settings. The thing that bothers me is that humans in Pantheon seems to have an edge over most other races - from lore perspective as well as (so-far) from very good passive racials. In most games humans are kind of equivalent of jack-of-all-trades class/build - capable of all but master of none - and that always worked very well.
Humans having access to all classes wouldn't bother me nearly as much if some of the races weren't as restricted as they are. I can see how you would feel that the DL doesn't "fit" for humans, butI think the Shaman doesn't really fit. To me, a Shaman is an incredibly wise, elder-like tribesman that can call upon ancestral and primal spirits and transcend time... but the Human characters we make are going to be maybe 30 years old... from the Thronefast tribe????
I would say take away the "wilderness" type of classes since Humans are the "civilized" race. Take away Druid, Shaman and maybe Ranger. (I know that won't happen, but just my opinion).
Darch said:Hegenox said:The fact that they have access to all classes doesn't bother me at all - the only class that doesn't really "fit" humans would be a dire lord anyway - all the others are well rooted in most fantasy settings. The thing that bothers me is that humans in Pantheon seems to have an edge over most other races - from lore perspective as well as (so-far) from very good passive racials. In most games humans are kind of equivalent of jack-of-all-trades class/build - capable of all but master of none - and that always worked very well.
Humans having access to all classes wouldn't bother me nearly as much if some of the races weren't as restricted as they are. I can see how you would feel that the DL doesn't "fit" for humans, butI think the Shaman doesn't really fit. To me, a Shaman is an incredibly wise, elder-like tribesman that can call upon ancestral and primal spirits and transcend time... but the Human characters we make are going to be maybe 30 years old... from the Thronefast tribe????
I would say take away the "wilderness" type of classes since Humans are the "civilized" race. Take away Druid, Shaman and maybe Ranger. (I know that won't happen, but just my opinion).
It would make a lot of sense to me to have humans backgrounds split like elves'. Instead of having just the humans of thronefast, we could have an human subset akin to the wildlings (free folk) of Game of Thrones/ASoIaF. This could better account for and justify the existence of the human shamans, rangers, and druids.
I will never ever play a human. In any game, that allows an option NOT to.
Humans are beyond boring...
race stats and bonus are irrelevant in my eyes.
15+ years of EQ and all the other MMOs over the years. not one single human played.
any chance I had to NOT be human i took it.
although I do like the idea of what Grogoo said about
It would make a lot of sense to me to have humans backgrounds split like elves'. Instead of having just the humans of thronefast, we could have an human subset akin to the wildlings (free folk) of Game of Thrones/ASoIaF. This could better account for and justify the existence of the human shamans, rangers, and druids.
i like this idea...
Not playing human as a point of pride is silly.
There is nothing boring about being human. Humans are so god damned interesting and frenetic that we come to games to get away from it.
Play what you like.
To the topic: the idea that humans can be every class is owed to their tendencies towards being journeymen. If you think about it, most people can do anything, if they tried. The rare cases are the specialists in their respective fields.
Racial bonuses are the manifestation of the specialisations that non-human races have access to.
It's an unfortunate thing that we also tend to reduce non-humans to singular human traits. It's the Star Trek Effect. Entire worlds represented by singular settlements.
In my perfect world, any race should be able to be any class, and we should have MORE racial traits that differentiate the peoples of Terminus, not fewer.